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mike1889
04-18-2005, 08:20 PM
Here is the updated list of Winter 46ers. There were 19 new Winter 46ers recorded last winter. If you finished your Winter 46 and aren't on the list, get your climbing list to the 46er Historian.

Skyclimber
04-18-2005, 09:00 PM
Since the turn of the century, Winter Climbing sure has grown. Exactly 100 more added to the list. Wow! I guess I should of waited a few more years, it might had been easier for me!!

Pete_Hickey
04-19-2005, 06:20 AM
Since the turn of the century, Winter Climbing sure has grown. Exactly 100 more added to the list. Wow! I guess I should of waited a few more years, it might had been easier for me!!

Look at it this way. The first hundred took 30 years.

The real increase started in the 90's Look at the number finishing each decade:

6 1960
18 1970
45 1980
140 1990
100 2000

Almost triples each decade. By 2009, I predict there will be 400 fr the decade.

Skyclimber
04-19-2005, 08:44 AM
Ya, but a decade of the 2000's hasn't even finished yet, there is still five years to go! Maybe another 100 people will finish in that amount of time. It's gotten much easier to achieve this goal, then many years ago, when breaking trail was a necessity on just about every peak.
But then the Summer Forty-Six is much easier than 50 years ago too! So I guess it may even out.

Doc McPeak
04-19-2005, 07:52 PM
Ya, but a decade of the 2000's hasn't even finished yet, there is still five years to go! Maybe another 100 people will finish in that amount of time. It's gotten much easier to achieve this goal, then many years ago, when breaking trail was a necessity on just about every peak.
But then the Summer Forty-Six is much easier than 50 years ago too! So I guess it may even out.

Actually the early 46ers had great terrain for all the trailless peaks until the big hurricane in the 50's. After the great fires and logging, many summits were delightful strolls through open woods. Except for when you ran into cripplebrush though. Fires or loggers can't even beat that stuff.

NYBRAD
04-24-2005, 07:46 AM
I think the big advantage we have now is the internet.
Knowing what's busted out, and the conditions, makes it easier to get the longer less traveled peaks in winter.

No doubt about it though, it's still no easy task, it's the Adirondacks! :D

Pete_Hickey
04-24-2005, 07:56 AM
I think the big advantage we have now is the internet.
Knowing what's busted out, and the conditions, makes it easier to get the longer less traveled peaks in winter.

The biggest thing is if the trail is broken or not. I'll never forget what happened several years ago... sometime after Floyd, when Allen was hard to get. One (winter) day, someone had posted something saying that the allen trail was broken, and it was easy to follow. The number of cars at that trailhead the following weekend was unbelievable.

Grumpy
04-24-2005, 08:03 AM
The biggest thing is if the trail is broken or not. I'll never forget what happened several years ago... sometime after Floyd, when Allen was hard to get. One (winter) day, someone had posted something saying that the allen trail was broken, and it was easy to follow. The number of cars at that trailhead the following weekend was unbelievable.

Could it be that the "problem" (if it is a "problem" at all) is not with improved media for exchanging information, but with the compulsive urge peakbaggers have to check summits off on their lists? A chicken-egg thing?

Just a thought . . .

G.

Bhoody
04-25-2005, 08:05 AM
Even before the internet folks would get their hands on the RWMS schedule (its mailed out in November so that one can sign up for trips) and then follow the broken out path on Sunday or Monday! :D

mavs00
04-25-2005, 10:14 AM
Could it be that the "problem" (if it is a "problem" at all) is not with improved media for exchanging information, but with the compulsive urge peakbaggers have to check summits off on their lists? A chicken-egg thing?

Just a thought . . .

G.

I'm not totally sure it's confined to hikers. Last February, I had posted some info (not sure if it was here or elsewhere) about setting up a hike up Lewey Mountain (a lesser ADK100 peak in the Indian Lake area) and we had settled on a particular day. A couple people that lived near the trailhead and had nothing better to do the day before and offered to "break out" the first 2 miles of the way along Sucker Brook Trail for us (which was WAY cool of them I might add).

Now this is a pretty remotely used trail, but it leads to a "Height of land" between Lewey and Cellar peak that would have to be pretty cool to ski. The next day, when we signed-in, we noted with interest that the "trail breaking" party the day before was the first group to sign in for over a month, but there were 2 seperate groups of skiers that signed in right after them (in the afternoon) citing the "height of land" as thier destination. It seems obvious that these skiers, who we did not know, had "heard" about the fact that the trail would be opened (through the internet) and took advantage of it.

Also, I received an e-mail later that week from someone that "thanked us" for the "broken out" trail to the top of Lewey, as he used it several days later to grab this summit. Mind you, this is NOT a popular peak (for good reason), but when you read "the trail is open", people will take advantage. Look at the Pin Pin followers there are all winter, hell,if I had that many people following me, I'd get nervious ;)

Actually, for that and other past things, I'm becoming MUCH more careful about posting "where I'm going" or even "where I've been". It's sad, but you NEVER know who is seeing it and what they are doing with the info.

p.s. there are places, you just have to look for them :)

Skyclimber
04-25-2005, 10:51 AM
I totally agree with you, Tim. On a Winter Climb to the Sewards several years back, a friend posted on the Internet of our planned climb. When we pulled into Corey's, the parking lot was full. Thought this was great, a broken trail through the Seward Range. Just to have seventeen people standing there, half from the Internet, announcing they were with our group. Needless to say, the other half were eventually "left behind" as we forwarded on to complete our hike, in which we made all 3 that day.

Same happened on Allen. Others followed behind us, "stealing" the peak and totally unwilling to help break trail, when they caught up. After we endured eight hours of trail breaking to the summit in 2-3 feet of snow and still had 2 hours left to reach the peak.

It's happened on several other occasions too. Best to keep such information to one's self. We learned the hard way.

Grumpy
04-25-2005, 11:07 AM
I totally agree with you, Tim. On a Winter Climb to the Sewards several years back, a friend posted on the Internet of our planned climb. When we pulled into Corey's, the parking lot was full. Thought this was great, a broken trail through the Seward Range. Just to have seventeen people standing there, half from the Internet, announcing they were with our group. Needless to say, the other half were eventually "left behind" as we forwarded on to complete our hike, in which we made all 3 that day.

Same happened on Allen. Others followed behind us, "stealing" the peak and totally unwilling to help break trail, when they caught up. After we endured eight hours of trail breaking to the summit in 2-3 feet of snow and still had 2 hours left to reach the peak.

I can understand being annoyed with party crashers who show up and announce they are going to join you, uninvited. I can readily understand being annoyed at someone who attaches himself to your group but declines to help out with breaking trail. I even can appreciate that having a lot of company (even dispersed company that doesn't hitch up to your party) when you hoped for a less crowded trail might be disappointing.

What I don't get, though, is how the how the thought (or actuality) of someone else learning about and using a trail you (or anyone else) broke out (after the fact) diminishes your own experience in any way. Or can reasonably be viewed as an annoyance. But then, maybe I've missed something here.

G.

Skyclimber
04-25-2005, 11:25 AM
.

What I don't get, though, is how the how the thought (or actuality) of someone else learning about and using a trail you (or anyone else) broke out (after the fact) diminishes your own experience in any way. Or can reasonably be viewed as an annoyance. But then, maybe I've missed something here.

G.

You missed the boat here. Who said anything that it diminished my own experience? If I break a trail doesn't mean I must advertise where I have been. That is my choice to make, no one else's.

Grumpy
04-25-2005, 12:00 PM
You missed the boat here. Who said anything that it diminished my own experience? If I break a trail doesn't mean I must advertise where I have been. That is my choice to make, no one else's.

I don't believe I've missed any boat here.

In your own words: "Others followed behind us, 'stealing' the peak . . .." That certainly implies to me that you came away with a sense of having been cheated out of something.

It's the word "stealing," even though used in quotes.

Now, I'll grant, of course, that the specific incident you cited was one of those tag-along cases in which the self-invited folks declined to help break trail. Rightly annoying, that refusal to help carry the load. But to imply theft in this or other cases when someone follows your broken-out trail sort of reveals a belief to the effect that you were unfairly deprived, in my opinion.

This isn't the first time I've sensed that sort of mindset when the issue of exchanging or publicizing trail and trip information via the internet has popped up. It always has puzzled me why anyone would think his or her own accomplishments in the peakbagging world could be substantially diminished by what someone else does (or doesn't) do. Maybe that particular competitive gene got left out of my makeup.

I agree that it's your own choice to publicize or clam up about where you're going or where you've been and what you've found. I haven't said -- and won't say -- you have any general obligation to share such information, although I do think sharing is a positive thing and like to see it happen.

G.

Skyclimber
04-25-2005, 01:35 PM
I don't believe I've missed any boat here.

In your own words: "Others followed behind us, 'stealing' the peak . . .." That certainly implies to me that you came away with a sense of having been cheated out of something.
It's the word "stealing," even though used in quotes.
But to imply theft in this or other cases when someone follows your broken-out trail sort of reveals a belief to the effect that you were unfairly deprived, in my opinion.
This isn't the first time I've sensed that sort of mindset when the issue of exchanging or publicizing trail and trip information via the internet has popped up. It always has puzzled me why anyone would think his or her own accomplishments in the peakbagging world could be substantially diminished by what someone else does (or doesn't) do. Maybe that particular competitive gene got left out of my makeup.
I agree that it's your own choice to publicize or clam up about where you're going or where you've been and what you've found. I haven't said -- and won't say -- you have any general obligation to share such information, although I do think sharing is a positive thing and like to see it happen.
G.

Again I did not say anything that anyone else diminished my experience in any way. It's how I made the climb and the friendships along, that determined my experience and fun along the trails.

Stealing a peak to me, is "when one person works their butt off to get to the top of a peak and someone else just "waltzes" in after and has a cake walk to the summit." I also will say that I have agreed on many occasions with my hiking partner, "that we had all the fun," while breaking trails. Although we have had some of those "cake walks" ourselves. We though, however, did not rely on the Internet to get our peaks, we broke our own way, when needed. I do not share my info on the trails we broke. Let the others work just as hard as we did. Isn't that what Winter Climbing is all about? Excitement and challenge to the summits? Not knowing if your going to reach the top or not? Or has the new challenge become "how many cake walks can we get to the summits?"

Oh yes, I have already come to grips of reality on how Winter Climbing has changed throughout the years, as one put it to me, "you climbed in the Canister Era but now we are in the Computer Era," of climbing. Quite a difference. But my time of climbing was much more fun.

Neil
04-25-2005, 01:52 PM
Marta,
Was I the one who said that about the cannister vs. computer era? I hope so , it's a good one. :)
I wouldn't t mind if people learned I broke a trail then "swooped in" soon after to take advantage of it. I think this could have happened twice this winter. Cliff and Caulkins, it may have been a fluke but there were no reports before we went, lots of deep snow, then lots of reports right after we went. That I don't mind. It might get on my nerves if the same people showed up over and over again and followed me around just so they could benefit from my trail breaking.

Who knows, maybe someone has a knee or a back problem and just can't take all that gruelling uphill snowshoeing anymore but just loves to be out on a summit. All this winter hiking with the packed sidewalk trails has opened up (or kept open) a whole world of self-propelled outdoor pleasure. Not everyone cares how hard it is. For many, the easier the better.

I do know what you mean about the satisfaction after a long, hard successful hike.

Tramper Al
04-25-2005, 02:01 PM
There seems to be an inconsistency here. On the one hand the followers are 'stealing the peak' and on the other the leaders are 'having all the fun'. So what's left to steal? Somehow, these 'internet hikers' are tainting the hike for those who don't 'rely on the internet'?

I think if you don't want anyone to know when and where you are hiking, then maybe don't publicize the date and place of your hike, yes?

I have never publicly announced my winter hikes, place and time, beforehand. But that's mainly because I don't want the responsibility of bringing to the trailhead people that I don't know (from screening them) should be there. Do I care if someone shows up after my group and I have 'broken' a trail, heck no. If anything, it brings us a little more glory. And of course, I'm only in it for the glory.

Warren
04-25-2005, 02:04 PM
Stealing a peak to me, is "when one person works their butt off to get to the top of a peak and someone else just "waltzes" in after and has a cake walk to the summit.".

So everyone who has climbed a mountain after the first person did- who had no trail, no physiological assurance that it could be done is stealing it?

Where's the line drawn? I've climbed a mountain by following a trail, did I steal it because I didn't blaze my own trail? I certainlly had a cake walk as compared to the first explorer who went that way...

If you really feel this strongly about this, do you make the effort to choose your own route and bushwack every mountain from the trailhead?

Skyclimber
04-25-2005, 02:11 PM
Marta,
Was I the one who said that about the cannister vs. computer era? I hope so , it's a good one. :)
.

Yes siree, Doc it was you! I truly liked that saying. You opened my eyes to something that I actually hadn't really realized before. You know what I'm trying to say. So I am trying to win a losing battle here on explaining all of this. But what you said, those words will stick with me. I have even shared those words with others, who as well found it an interesting concept of Winter Climbing today.

NYBRAD
04-25-2005, 03:57 PM
I look at it this way.
If I'm part of a strong trail breaking party, I might not even bother to look for any trail reports after a fresh dump. The plan is to head for a certain peak, and do our best, regardless of how difficult it is. These hikes tend to be more gratifying for me.
For all that follow the trail, I hope they appreciate the effort that went into breaking the trail.

On the other hand,
If I'm going on a solo hike in winter, I may pick and choose the peak according to what I think I can do alone without any help. This is where I think the Internet is very helpful. Trail breaking solo for 7 or 8 miles is just not much fun for me anymore. I've tried it, and can't say I enjoyed it much. I rather be skiing.
I'm not ashamed to ride the tails of other people's shoes when I don't have a partner, or when I'm out with a hiker that might not have the experience or stamina to do Allen without it being broken out.

I just hope that when people are out there, they appreciate the hard work that someone did, allowing them to reach their goals they might not have finished without the help of others. That goes for trail maintenance, Darren's site, breaking trail, guide books, and all the rest that enables people to get out and experience the outdoors within their own limits.

mavs00
04-25-2005, 04:16 PM
Well said Brad............

I actually posted the Lewey info looking for other winter hikers. cuz bottom line was, I was't totally comfortable bushwhacking a rarely climbed remote (no trail) ADK100 Highest solo in winter. and couldn't get any of my usual partners to go.

The fact that someone used our tracks a few days later was totally cool with me.

Why I am more careful about what I post is more a result that there are a remote few that don't want you to know that Lewey exists or that you can climb it :rolleyes: and they thumb their nose at you for posting that type of info. In the past, I've shared pics of places or TRs and have gotten less than flattering responses. Not that any of this has anything to do with winter hiking but........... You asked.

Generally, I'll share stuff, maybe not everything but I things like open routes in winter, for sure.

MLepore
04-25-2005, 07:25 PM
In the winter I have learned that you give some and get some. Most times, if I have planned a winter climb, I will go no matter if the trail is broken or not. Sometimes the trail is broken out, but sometimes its not. Personally, I find a greater sense of satisfaction at the end of the end breaking the trail.
If someone follow the trail I recently broke that's fine. As you can see by the number of posts I don't always log all my trips. Mavs I agree with you as far as posting information on less remote peaks.

Pete_Hickey
04-25-2005, 07:49 PM
Most times, if I have planned a winter climb, I will go no matter if the trail is broken or not. Sometimes the trail is broken out, but sometimes its not.

I was the same way when I did my winter 46. That's why it took me 10 years or so. That's why I didn't get Marshal until my fifth attempt, Gothics on my fourth, etc. Most of them were solo, and I enjoyed the climbs, even if I didn't reach the summit. I kind of liked breaking trail alone, because I could turn back when I wanted if I got tired. Nobody to pressure me into getting the peak.

Tom Rankin
04-25-2005, 08:00 PM
So everyone who has climbed a mountain after the first person did- who had no trail, no physiological assurance that it could be done is stealing it?

Where's the line drawn? I've climbed a mountain by following a trail, did I steal it because I didn't blaze my own trail? I certainlly had a cake walk as compared to the first explorer who went that way...

If you really feel this strongly about this, do you make the effort to choose your own route and bushwack every mountain from the trailhead?

This is why I stopped complaining about the 4 (actually there are more) peaks in the DAX that "don't count". I reasoned that if those that had gone before me could climb them (most likely under much worse circumstances), then so could I!

BTW, Warren, there is at least one person who has bushwhacked all 46 of the DAX. I'm not exactly sure what this means, but so I have heard...

Neil
04-25-2005, 08:04 PM
I was the same way when I did my winter 46. That's why it took me 10 years or so.
Hey mon, you poor guy. You born too soon! Now we've got the 46 wired mon. Read the forums mon and go with the flow. Deep snow? Ouach! Today's winter hiker wears ultra lite shoes mon and follows the hard core primitives. Champagne for the 46th? Gangha baby, gangha.

Skyclimber
04-25-2005, 08:11 PM
BTW, Warren, there is at least one person who has bushwhacked all 46 of the DAX. I'm not exactly sure what this means, but so I have heard...

His name is John Winkler, 46er B-1
It means that he ascended all 46 peaks by bushwhack route. He did not use the aid of a trail or herdpath. He did descend the trail on the way down.

Pete_Hickey
04-25-2005, 08:26 PM
If you really feel this strongly about this, do you make the effort to choose your own route and bushwack every mountain from the trailhead?

I think you have it backwards. It isn't to make it harder for yourself, it's to make it harder for others.

To some people, seeing others get their winter46 rocker by always following broken trails, lessesn the value of their own. Going back rather far, when Ed Bean, Guy Waterman, Fred Hunt, etc got theirs, it was a REAL challenge. So one of those guys tells someone they climbed the winter 46, that someone says, 'so what? Lots of people do it.'

Neil
04-25-2005, 08:40 PM
This discussion keeps popping up. If someone feels that their achievement is devalued because someone else gets the same "credit" for way less work, chutz-pah, balls or whatever, then that means that their achievement's worth is related not to their own inner sense of value but to what others think about it. Who cares about the others? You know what you did, what it means, how tough it was etc. The rocker is a common symbol of a highly uncommon and personal achievement.

Skyclimber
04-25-2005, 08:43 PM
I think you have it backwards. It isn't to make it harder for yourself, it's to make it harder for others.

To some people, seeing others get their winter46 rocker by always following broken trails, lessesn the value of their own. Going back rather far, when Ed Bean, Guy Waterman, Fred Hunt, etc got theirs, it was a REAL challenge. So one of those guys tells someone they climbed the winter 46, that someone says, 'so what? Lots of people do it.'

Praise God! Someone knows what I am talking about! Thanks Pete!
Even though I don't go quite back with Fred Hunt and those guys, it wasn't easy, it wasn't easy!

Peakbagr
04-25-2005, 09:36 PM
Pete and Marta....exactly.

mavs00
04-25-2005, 10:27 PM
I wonder if ole' George, Bob & Herbie look down on all of us and say that very same thing. :rolleyes:

Not much you can do except take pride in what YOU have done. For me, I won't take any less pride when I look at my 46r patch, even knowing my 11 y/o daughter was able to do the same frigging thing. Congrats on ALL you "w" finishers and take justifed pride in how you got there. Hell, you don't get w+ on your rocker cuz just you broke every trail along the way now do ya. :)

If it makes you feel better, I got lots of respect to all of you guys that have taken the "w" journey, even those of you who stole one or two along the way :)

Grumpy
04-26-2005, 08:37 AM
This discussion keeps popping up. If someone feels that their achievement is devalued because someone else gets the same "credit" for way less work, chutz-pah, balls or whatever, then that means that their achievement's worth is related not to their own inner sense of value but to what others think about it. Who cares about the others? You know what you did, what it means, how tough it was etc. The rocker is a common symbol of a highly uncommon and personal achievement.

Neil, I think you tagged the nail right on the head here, and said it all very directly and succinctly.

Now . . .

Without wishing to disparage anyone, another comment from this discussion very nicely summed up what makes my skin crawl:


. . . It isn't to make it harder for yourself, it's to make it harder for others.

To some people, seeing others get their winter46 rocker by always following broken trails, lessens the value of their own. . . .

That conveys an attitude quite contrary to the customarily generous nature of most hikers and mountain people Iíve met over 50-plus years of tramping around in the boonies. The idea that making something harder for others preserves or heightens the value of oneís own accomplishment is just beyond my ken. I always thought the greater glory was to be gained by being of good will and service to others, not by hindering them. But to each his own, I guess.

G.

Pete_Hickey
04-26-2005, 11:34 AM
The idea that making something harder for others preserves or heightens the value of oneís own accomplishment is just beyond my ken. I always thought the greater glory was to be gained by being of good will and service to others, not by hindering them. But to each his own, I guess.

Not necessarily harder, just not easier. Suppose that the club would give out patches either to someone who climbed the 46, OR to someone who donated more than, say, $5,000 to some environmental cause. Would that make you feel like your patch is worth less? Suppose they simply sold them at the Mountaineer, and anyone could buy them. Would that make a difference?

Taking it into a different world things DO make a difference. I got my university degree through 4 years of hard work. There are companies (read your spam) that will sell you uniiversity degrees for only $49.00. Can these lessen the value of something.

FWIW, it doesn'T bother me one way or the other. I climbed the way I wanted to, and my winter rocker is still on the top of the refridgerator, where it has been for years.

But I do understand how some others feel.

Pete_Hickey
04-26-2005, 09:12 PM
I wonder if ole' George, Bob & Herbie look down on all of us and say that very same thing.

You do realize that some peaks were easier for them than they are these days. In particular, the Sewards. Before the 50's hurricaine the forests were very open, and there were logging roads leading close to the summits.

mavs00
04-26-2005, 09:42 PM
You do realize that some peaks were easier for them than they are these days. In particular, the Sewards. Before the 50's hurricaine the forests were very open, and there were logging roads leading close to the summits.

Yes, Street and Nye were covered with open "cinderella forest" too. I know all that, You get my point, Becoming a 46er in the 2000's (or even 80's & 90's) is different then it was becoming one in the 1920's, I hope we agree there.

For instance, most modern day hikers at least drive to the LOJ to start hikes, those dudes used to walk :)

Reekee
04-27-2005, 11:02 AM
Mike, My number on your site is 280 and it's 279 on the 46er site. Which is correct? Thanks Reekee

mike1889
04-27-2005, 11:48 AM
Mike, My number on your site is 280 and it's 279 on the 46er site. Which is correct? Thanks Reekee

280 is correct. I haven't sent the updated list to the 46er Webmaster to update the web page yet, will do that shortly. There was one finisher who finished in 2001 who just reported her climbs, and that bumped everyone who finished after her up one number. The numbers for Winter 46ers aren't official, like the numbers for regular 46ers are. So if someone reports late, they are put in the correct chronological location and the numbers are increased. I just updated the list on the first post to include 2 new Winter 46ers who just reported, #308 and #311.

Reekee
04-27-2005, 02:22 PM
So my 46er number is not subject to change. That is good news because I have a really neat number. It's 5344. Does that number ring a bell? Thanks again Mike. Reekee

Tom Rankin
04-27-2005, 09:43 PM
So my 46er number is not subject to change. That is good news because I have a really neat number. It's 5344. Does that number ring a bell? Thanks again Mike. Reekee

Gee I like my number too! And a friend of mine is 4445.

Can you tell I'm fascinated with numbers? :D

Cloudsplitter
04-27-2005, 10:14 PM
To me the arguments presented in this thread are common debates that extend across all of outdoor sport. Think of the neverending debates in mountaineering communities about the "correct" ways to scale some of the world's highest peaks...Oxygen or no oxygen? Sherpas or no sherpas? Fixed routes or alpine style? The debates will probably go on forever. I'll grant that we are certainly talking about things on a very different level here, but the core issue is the same: What exactly places value on or devalues someone's outdoor achievements? Along those lines let me pose a question to those of you who are talking about "stealing" summits and feeling your accomplishments lessened by the acts of others...Would any of you, upon summiting an 8000 meter peak, feel a surge of disappointment at the fact that you relied on sherpas to help you reach the summit?? I think not. In such things we often become so wrapped up in the behaviors of those around us that we cheat ourselves out of enjoyable experiences.
-C

Warren
04-28-2005, 07:14 AM
To some people, seeing others get their winter46 rocker by always following broken trails, lessesn the value of their own. Going back rather far, when Ed Bean, Guy Waterman, Fred Hunt, etc got theirs, it was a REAL challenge. So one of those guys tells someone they climbed the winter 46, that someone says, 'so what? Lots of people do it.'

This is more or less what I was trying to point out- after the first the accomplishment does get "easier", the psychological "can it be done" has been answered and that can be a huge thing. As time goes on trails, knowledge of good bad routes, the presence of others attempting the same thing, improved weather reports, all make it easier over time. Despite that an individual can still choose to approach their climbing in a manner that negates many of these advantages.

I had forgotten how the storms of the past 50+ years affected the openness of the forest.

Reekee
04-28-2005, 09:01 AM
Gee I like my number too! And a friend of mine is 4445.

Can you tell I'm fascinated with numbers? :D

We humans seem to be concerned about numbers, style, and our accomplishments. But I do like my number and your for that matter.
In response to the other threads:
To be truthful, most people in my life couldn't name two Adirondack High Peaks, little own care about the winter 46. If I climbed for admiration I was sadly mistaken. If I climbed to be unique, I was more so before I started. Every recognized accomplishment, big or small, has to be followed up with a publicity campaign. So, to keep myself in check, when I come home from each trip I tell my 6yr. old of all the wonderful mountains I climbed. Then I ask her if she loves me more now. I always get the same answer. Few people care about my accomplishments and that has to be ok. Reekee

MBresle
05-10-2005, 08:14 PM
Again I did not say anything that anyone else diminished my experience in any way. It's how I made the climb and the friendships along, that determined my experience and fun along the trails.

Stealing a peak to me, is "when one person works their butt off to get to the top of a peak and someone else just "waltzes" in after and has a cake walk to the summit." I also will say that I have agreed on many occasions with my hiking partner, "that we had all the fun," while breaking trails. Although we have had some of those "cake walks" ourselves. We though, however, did not rely on the Internet to get our peaks, we broke our own way, when needed. I do not share my info on the trails we broke. Let the others work just as hard as we did. Isn't that what Winter Climbing is all about? Excitement and challenge to the summits? Not knowing if your going to reach the top or not? Or has the new challenge become "how many cake walks can we get to the summits?"

Oh yes, I have already come to grips of reality on how Winter Climbing has changed throughout the years, as one put it to me, "you climbed in the Canister Era but now we are in the Computer Era," of climbing. Quite a difference. But my time of climbing was much more fun.

I've got to agree with you here, except on one point, or perhaps exception. I'll be the first to admit that since i've been stuck in atlanta for the last four years (thank god i'm finally returning to New York this fall) i haven't really had the chance to do much winter climbing. If you show up at a trail and it is already broken, i see nothing wrong with the climb. if you come upon the group that's breaking it, do your share and offer to take point for a while. If you find out that person x is doing hike y on an unbroken trail and show up just to have them break it for you or come upon the group that is breaking trail and do nothing, that is stealing a peak. Have you earned the peak through hiking it? technically yes, but it's that much cheaper and that much less of an accomplishment.

MMB
46R 5048

Peakbagr
05-10-2005, 08:20 PM
And I think the point Marta was making is your last one. That the internet, and things like the Trails Conditions have made "advance scouting" of whats broken out a science for many.

MBresle
05-10-2005, 08:35 PM
And I think the point Marta was making is your last one. That the internet, and things like the Trails Conditions have made "advance scouting" of whats broken out a science for many.

I miss the simple days, "i'm doing santanoni on sunday [not really, but a guy can dream], i'll check the weather reports and will bring what i'll need for all conditions" with the obligatory 'shucks, it's raining/snowing/sunny/broken/unbroken etc.'
lol

mmb 46r5048

mike1889
10-19-2005, 02:11 PM
Here is an updated list with a few new names.

Raymond
10-20-2005, 03:58 AM
I trust all that trail work Pete Hickey does isn't to make things more difficult for people.

That's Mother Nature's job.

Tim Seaver
10-20-2005, 11:10 AM
While we are busy diminishing the accomplishments of those that take the "easy way out", let's not forget to excoriate the second class citizens who purposely choose NICE WEATHER days for their pursuits. These low-life cherry pickers really have no standing among the weekend warriors who regularly battle ground blizzards and sub-zero temperatures, lugging 20 pounds of heavy weather gear, simply because they don't have the luxury of hiking mid-week on a choice day.

If fact, I think there should be a separate patch for these freeloaders, perhaps with an large asterisk, just so that all the "real" winter hikers out there can spot them at 50 meters.
:D