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proszach
05-06-2005, 02:09 PM
Anybody got any tips or info on finding the turn off the Gale River Trail and onto the stream towards Hawthorne Falls? I don't have the map on me, but I think I recall what looks like 3 crossings of the brook before hitting the turn-off. Any details would be helpful. Thanks.

dr_wu002
05-06-2005, 02:20 PM
http://docs.unh.edu/NH/frcn32ne.jpg

-Dr. Wu

Mike P.
05-06-2005, 03:53 PM
Joe Jalberts (sic) lost trail site used to have a description also. If folliowing the brook up to the falls I seem to recall it being described in Joe's site as being between the 2nd & third crossing. Is it bushwhacked from the third crossing?

MarkJ
05-06-2005, 05:24 PM
We (post'r,MJ) came down upon Hawthorne from Galehead,E and W Garfield,from the col ,that's a good loop.Plus at the end you can just walk thru the river if you don't wanna take your shoes off,short hike back.There's some thick spots up there if you stray too close to the Falls stream,and the snow was still up there last spring.

RGF1
05-06-2005, 08:00 PM
Looking at the map (yes i used the Thingy Dr WU ! ) I was thinking that someone cound with the map and compass or GPS device find the Falls from the Garfiled Shelter. now if only we cqn get rid of the AMC at that great site and have it run by a real out door grouop it would be nmice Sunset from Grafield ! I have Pics and the falls hell lets kick out the Monopoloy money colletors for high payining folks and let the WMNF or even a new group run it. Hey an idea for a new thread ! Going to start it soon please do not flame or attack . If it is possible could we re open the trail ,I have chainsaws (ah Pete Hickeymy MS 660 will kick you huskys butt note mild jokeing teasing ) will work hard for steak and cold beers ! Or even BBQ . I do want to find theb "lost " falls .

proszach
05-08-2005, 10:53 AM
thanks everyone. i'm thinking about tackling this in the next weekend or two.

Jasonst
05-09-2005, 09:51 AM
Looking at the map (yes i used the Thingy Dr WU ! ) I was thinking that someone cound with the map and compass or GPS device find the Falls from the Garfiled Shelter. now if only we cqn get rid of the AMC at that great site and have it run by a real out door grouop it would be nmice Sunset from Grafield ! I have Pics and the falls hell lets kick out the Monopoloy money colletors for high payining folks and let the WMNF or even a new group run it. Hey an idea for a new thread ! Going to start it soon please do not flame or attack . If it is possible could we re open the trail ,I have chainsaws (ah Pete Hickeymy MS 660 will kick you huskys butt note mild jokeing teasing ) will work hard for steak and cold beers ! Or even BBQ . I do want to find theb "lost " falls .

I understand your fury about the AMC but we get the point... O yeah, how about doing us all a favor and EDIT YOUR POSTS - it makes it so much more enjoyable for the reader ;)

RGF1
05-10-2005, 10:46 AM
I understand your fury about the AMC but we get the point... O yeah, how about doing us all a favor and EDIT YOUR POSTS - it makes it so much more enjoyable for the reader ;)
Jason, Sorry about my anti AMC stuff but to be honest it has gotten personal with me. They have cost me money due to opposition to even small scale selective timbering . I was bidding on a small area to log of all things cord wood not (Burning Cord wood reduces oil consumption evcn on a small scale ) clear cut or the like. The AMC fought to keep out logging, as it would detract from the experience of people going to a Hut. BS they would not even notice me or hear the chainsaw or skid steer. I would be over 300 ft from the trail in question. But the AMC won out and cost me at least 20 k. So yeah I am a bit angry at them Ironically after I would have finished people would see more wildlife as it likes to eat the new growth that comes up and of course predators follow. .
I mentioned this earlier and I do ask for some patience. I take some very potent pain killers from time to time due to a severe logging accident last November , so sometimes even using Word or Note pad I do note type as I want to I hit the wrong keys. It is not intentional. But I do try. If I catch it. Also I feel kind of foolish editing a post I made say 4 days ago. But I will try. Just do not flame me about it . Remember this is a hiking forum not a graduate journalism course.
I want to find the “lost “ falls also .

Jasonst
05-10-2005, 10:55 AM
Jason, Sorry about my anti AMC stuff but to be honest it has gotten personal with me. They have cost me money due to opposition to even small scale selective timbering . I was bidding on a small area to log of all things cord wood not (Burning Cord wood reduces oil consumption evcn on a small scale ) clear cut or the like. The AMC fought to keep out logging, as it would detract from the experience of people going to a Hut. BS they would not even notice me or hear the chainsaw or skid steer. I would be over 300 ft from the trail in question. But the AMC won out and cost me at least 20 k. So yeah I am a bit angry at them Ironically after I would have finished people would see more wildlife as it likes to eat the new growth that comes up and of course predators follow. .
I mentioned this earlier and I do ask for some patience. I take some very potent pain killers from time to time due to a severe logging accident last November , so sometimes even using Word or Note pad I do note type as I want to I hit the wrong keys. It is not intentional. But I do try. If I catch it. Also I feel kind of foolish editing a post I made say 4 days ago. But I will try. Just do not flame me about it . Remember this is a hiking forum not a graduate journalism course.
I want to find the “lost “ falls also .

I totally understand you argument for selective timbering and concur that it is a profitable thing. I think I was just getting weary of the anti AMC stuff, as found in a few other threads. Sorry to be critical of the your posts. I am a stickler about spelling and grammar. No offense

Tramper Al
05-10-2005, 10:55 AM
Sorry about my anti AMC stuff but to be honest it has gotten personal with me. They have cost me money due to opposition to even small scale selective timbering . I was bidding on a small area to log of all things cord wood not (Burning Cord wood reduces oil consumption evcn on a small scale ) clear cut or the like. The AMC fought to keep out logging, as it would detract from the experience of people going to a Hut. BS they would not even notice me or hear the chainsaw or skid steer. I would be over 300 ft from the trail in question. But the AMC won out and cost me at least 20 k. So yeah I am a bit angry at them.
Are you seriously saying that all of this AMC hatred you've been spreading around so liberally is because this mountain club opposed a logging proposal on the grounds that it would detract from the natural beauty and integrity of the area, and you lost money that you never had because there was no logging contract to bid on? Wow.

RGF1
05-10-2005, 11:36 AM
Al there was a contract but the AMC lobbied to get rid of it. Second logging does not always detract from the"natural beauty and imtegrity " . of a area .This was about plple getting upset over what really goes on in working forest and theWMNF is a working forest. The WMNF has beenn razed twice . please do not demonize loggers they work damn hard and cut the wood that you use to build your house, that you burn in the winter. If you were aware , logging is the reason there is such a spectaular display of fall colors the area. It would be primarily old growth confirous fores had not it been devastated by abusive logging . I am a contentriuous and good steward of the enviorment. . Why would I deystroy what I earn a living from ? The WMNF is ment not only for hiking but timbering and other resource extraction . It is not the sole playground of a select few as some seem to think it is it does not exist only for hikers .In fact may of you have hiked trhough a area that has been selctivlely logged and never knew it at all. Not all logging is clear cutting . Also timber is a renewable resource . I feel as if the people who buy timber to build and burn do not want to where it comes from or the people who cut cut it. it is hard grueling work. not to mention dangerous. Yes alot of us who log are at odds with the AMC that has blocked lots of bids. Yes they cost me money by having the WMNF overide my already signed bid. Icannot afford a high prced attorney to fight them . I think it is very selfish of people to think they and only they have the correct use of our national forest.
If one wishes to see pristine un cut land vist a National Park . Also most of the WMNF is closed to logging. the area was close to a road . So no it is not selfish. I welcome and ask you to fully investigate and read about loging and forest manegment rather thean flame me and sterotype all loggers as defilers of the forest. BTW the land I was to logg was going ot be made into XC ski trails . I was going to cut them . Yeah destructive. Also it is not hatered but anger . big differnce

Jason no offence taken we all have things we can be sticklers about

Tramper Al
05-10-2005, 12:05 PM
Your points about multi-use of the WMNF are well taken. I do know where wood comes from actually, and I've hiked a bit in Maine too. And yes, if you'd cut a XC ski trail in the WMNF, I'd likely have been very happy to ski it myself.

Even those here who might like to see less logging in the the National Forest and other treasured lands of the northeast don't seem to go around peppering the majority of their posts on other topics with malicious comments about 'money-grubbing loggers' and the like, do they?

It just seems a bit disingenuous (or maybe even ironic) for someone to spread anti-mountain club rhetoric like "high priced AMC sites", "wrong wrong wrong AMC ! AKA Appalachian Money Collectors", and on and on and on, when the source of this animosity is itself personally financial at its core.

One of the reasons I'm thankful that the Appalachian Mountain Club, and other organizations like it, have been on watch in the northeast for the last 130 years or so, is that I have to wonder what the mountains would look like today if they hadn't been there to balance the weight of such individual profit motives. Yes, I am aware of the logging history.

And most importantly for VFTT, perhaps, this thread has been thoroughly hikjacked by yet more anti-AMC content, from its initial inquiry regarding Hawthorne Falls. I believe this is what several other posters have pointed out to you already. For my part in falling into the trap of attempting to clarify the motivation behind the campaign, I am sorry. I wonder what part the AMC, the Weeks Act, and other forces of conservation over the years may have played in preserving the Hawthorne Falls area?

RGF1
05-10-2005, 12:57 PM
Al I am not going ot get into the AMC stuff only to say I was very upset when i heard that i could not do what i had been told I could do and why. How would you like it if you wer promised something only ot have soem one else with more money and influnce than you make a stink for no real reason and lose it ?
FWIW the area around Hawthorn falls is out side of both wildrness areas and the soon to be ended roadless area act. I would much rather have some pone like my self work it selectivly and carefully i would not cut the valley at all. but would bid on it os as to prevent it from being cut .
But I am hinet about it . I do not claimne not to be making money and yes a lving off logging most of it off public land but I had thought i was doing a good thing only to have my head handed to me and now I have ot find a lot to timber to make upo for the lost income. It is alot more complex than what most of the public sees. Asl As i said most loggers are not money grubbres and just Guys like me wo ho work our butts off to make a lving . and we do alot of good . Please read my post aboput logging. Believe it or not I care alot about our forest . most loggers do. But we are honest hard wroking folks who make no pretionse to be any thing else i do not call gear soem euphmism A chainsaw isa chains saw . I openly sell cord wood to make a profit. I Charge sometimes 3- 5 grand to drop a tree. i of course am making soem profit . I do not pretend to be any thing oter than a small bussines guy trying ot make ends meet. and have soem extrwea for a a few trips out west . and buy things i enjoy i just do not do it in a cubical. . And I do not work every day. But I am not ashamed of what I do . I am proud ot of it . I wish pople would talk ot me in person ask me about what I do about how i feel about consevation and clearcutting about othet things rather than make a assumptionm o based on a steortypethat is so far from reality as to out rightly wrong . I love the mpouintains both her and oput west. and would hate to see them devastated.