PDA

View Full Version : User Reps Continued...



BrentD22
06-26-2005, 08:37 AM
Sorry Darren I know and understand "your" reasons for the reputation feature. I do though publicly want to say that I disagree with it completely. If I could amagine being a new member, signing on and seeing that someone has lost 1 or 2 rep points unkown that is do to flaming. Now lets pretend for a moment that member has wonderful great points. Won't that lead to new members ignoring good posters on the judgments of others. Also the opposite could happen in the event where people that have really bad posts that are already ignored by a lot of people won't get negative points because veteran members don't read their posts. New members won't know this because the member with horrible points of view has a avg reputation and new members will believe that veterans have nothing to say negatively about that member.

I also want to say that I feel people judge people all the time. Nothing is wrong with that unless you can do it behind people's backs. If someone feels that they are important enough or that they think their opinion is worth making someone else feel badly than that person should be big enough to post a comment with their username in it. I've voted on several people all positive. I didn't make a comment, but from now on I vow that I will respect others enough to post a comment either negatively or positively.

You did mention that this is a test and that you may rethink the whole idea. I'm hoping you do rethink the idea or at least find a way to make the feature better. For instance making it required to post your username to affect others rep points or at least make it required to post a comment.

Please feel free to "ding" my reputation for this, but my hope is that a feature with potential can be made better vs. working against why I joined and have participated in this board for the time I have.

Oh ya and I seemed to have recieved a negative rep point on a thread that I did not post on. How is that?

sp1936
06-26-2005, 09:36 AM
I have ignored the reputation feature since its inception, and will continue to do so. It has no relevance to my use of this board. I have no interest in passing judgment on other users, nor do I care what anybody thinks of me.

It's a fine day, get outside and enjoy it.

Steve

ALGonquin Bob
06-26-2005, 11:55 AM
Ditto, Steve. I also think that a new member will have enough to look at without trying to comprehend this "reputation" thing.

I just ignore it, other than posting my opinion about it, which seems to gets both POS and NEG comments from readers (emotion!). Dare to be different...
:eek:

carole
06-26-2005, 12:16 PM
I've come to look at it as just another 'list' that some people are working on. :rolleyes: :D

darren
06-27-2005, 06:57 AM
BrentD22 et al

I hope I am saying this stuff for the last time. The rep system is not specific to this site. Hundreds of websites use this feature on this software. It is standard feature that I just hadn't gotten around to turning on.

User reps will be more useful after a year or so. It will go through some growing pains right now, but after a while when everyone's scores are much higher (or lower) things will really even out. If you get -1 point right now and your rep went from 10 to 9, then that is a 10% drop. A year from now, if someone gives you -1 point and your user rep is 150 then it is no big deal. The people who deserve better reps will get them over time. The people who deserve lower reps will get them over time.

Right now, just about everyone has a single green square under their name. After a year or so, the better posters could have 5 or 6 green squares and the ones with lower reps will have a single green or maybe a red square. To a new user it will be easy to identify who has consistantly good information. It will take time, but it will work. If you don't like it then just choose to ignore it.

And if you get negative rep hits for this post, then you shouldn't complain about it, you should maybe sit back and think about why you got them. My guess is that it is because people are sick of the handful of you people that are making such a big deal out of the user reps. Now give it a rest.


- darren

Tramper Al
06-27-2005, 07:12 AM
After a year or so, the better posters could have 5 or 6 green squares . . .
"Better posters"? With respect, I don't think you would find general agreement that this system rewards "better" posters. Maybe more prolific ones, maybe those less challenging of conventional wisdom, but not better posters.


My guess is that it is because people are sick of the handful of you people that are making such a big deal out of the user reps. Now give it a rest.
Again, I don't wish to antagonize the moderator, but you are the one that turned on this heinous rating system. In doing so, you've made a "bigger deal" out of it than anyone else possibly could.

Edit: Well, I obviously offended the moderator (with my words above) to such an extent that he hit me with the big 10 point rep reduction within a few short minutes. I could not have described a better example of using the rep system for petty reprisal, thanks for that. I never started a thread on reputations, I just gave my opinion when the topic came up. I tried very hard to be both tactful and gentle in disagreeing above with the moderator's opinion, but to no avail. Here I was foolishly assuming that my status as beneficiary of a very high rep rating gives credibility (and objectivity) to my opinion of the rep system as divisive and counterproductive.


Oh boo hoo, it must be just awful being in the top ten of user reps. I just don't know how you can deal with this user rep system. Do you think you can drop it now after your 20 rants against it? I have read all your posts and you and the 5 others that don't like it are not changing my mind. If anything, you are making me more adamant about keeping it. I hate to have to post stuff like this in public, but the half dozen of you are really pissing me off.
Give it a rest!

20 rants, huh? Well, that's news to me. Since I have clearly overstayed my welcome, I think it's time for me to stop posting on VFTT, at least for a long while. Perhaps doing so before I am banned will at least allow me to come back. Maybe you guys will sort this out in the meantime. It's time to just be outside and leave the talking about it to others who are better suited to it. I hope to see you on the trails.

Bye for now . . .

jade
06-27-2005, 07:35 AM
I deleted my response.......

darren
06-27-2005, 07:37 AM
you are the one that turned on this heinous rating system.


Oh boo hoo, it must be just awful being in the top ten of user reps. I just don't know how you can deal with this user rep system. Do you think you can drop it now after your 20 rants against it? I have read all your posts and you and the 5 others that don't like it are not changing my mind. If anything, you are making me more adamant about keeping it. I hate to have to post stuff like this in public, but the half dozen of you are really pissing me off.

Give it a rest!

- darren

dr_wu002
06-27-2005, 08:11 AM
Oh boo hoo, it must be just awful being in the top ten of user reps. I just don't know how you can deal with this user rep system. Do you think you can drop it now after your 20 rants against it? I have read all your posts and you and the 5 others that don't like it are not changing my mind. If anything, you are making me more adamant about keeping it. I hate to have to post stuff like this in public, but the half dozen of you are really pissing me off.

Give it a rest!

- darren
Jeez! People, it's not like Darren is coming through the computer screen and cutting your fingers off every time someone gives you a red square. I don't want to say this to insult Darren because I know VFTT means a lot to him, but for everyone else here -- VFTT is just a website and shouldn't be something to notch up your blood pressure an order-of-magnitude. Red Squares, Green Squares -- who the hell cares?

-Dr. Wu

Maddy
06-27-2005, 09:08 AM
I have ignored the reputation feature since its inception, and will continue to do so.Steve
I have stayed away from this topic also. To be honest I am not even certain how it works or where to look at my ratings.
I decided that being ultra sensitive it would be best that I don't look at stuff like this. I checked on it today because I was suprised that it is still ongoing.
I hope to never post anything that will ban me from these boards. They are a just so much fun and informative and I really don't want to know who hates me and who doesn't. I have read only about 5% of the posts on this topic. Happy to read what Steve shared today.
If posts are really obnoxious I like that Darren just deals with it. I think that is most important and I respect him for it.

ALGonquin Bob
06-27-2005, 10:24 AM
It seems that contrary opinions are not welcome here. If the moderator is taking such offense to non-personal criticism of a feature of the site that he writes something such as the "boo-hoo-hoo" post, offending and losing a good member such as Tramper Al (only in my opinion I guess), then it's time for the moderator to lighten up as well.

I really don't like to criticize Darren on this forum because I do enjoy VFTT, and it provides a tremendously valuable service to us all. I have publicly praised VFTT whenever given the chance, but criticism should be accepted as well.

Why don't we ALL give this a rest, make up, and go hiking...

Mr. X
06-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Dude, who really cares wheather or not you get bad rep points. I've gotten a bunch and think it's pretty funny, especially the comments part.

Jasonst
06-27-2005, 11:04 AM
I believe we're all guests on this free site. Darren isn't obligated to provide this site for anyone. let's keep that in mind before we criticize him. He's the guru, he pays the bills, therefore he makes the rules. Thanks man - I think it's much to do about nothing.

dave.m
06-27-2005, 11:04 AM
Sorry Darren I know and understand "your" reasons for the reputation feature. I do though publicly want to say that I disagree with it completely.

BrentD22, you aren't alone. And you are brave for speaking out. If past threads on this topic are any indication, it will only be a matter of time before Darren silences your (and others') complaint by locking the thread. I also expect you will receive negative feedback points for raising the issue, which is really ironic since you did exactly the right thing according to the site's charter by raising the issue here in the Feedback forum. My suggestion is to just ignore the feedback system entirely. I suspect you will find it frustrating to see red dots racking up anytime you say anything that could possibly be offensive, but there you have it.



I hope I am saying this stuff for the last time.


Darren, if you want to explain the reputation feedback feature and how you want people to use one time, might I suggest you create a sticky in the Feedback forum that people can referance? I've tried using the search mechanism to try to find places where you've described how you want this feature but haven't had too much luck. Frankly, I don't have that much time and I'm not too motivated to dig up a ref for a feature that I will just ignore anyway. But, the difficulting I'm having in finding your written record on the subject suggests to me that others aren't seeing your written guidance either.

Better to say something once and leverage the sticky feature to keep it visible. As it is, your individual posts, are getting lost deep within threads.

Artex
06-27-2005, 11:09 AM
I believe we're all guests on this free site. Darren isn't obligated to provide this site for anyone. let's keep that in mind before we criticize him. He's the guru, he pays the bills, therefore he makes the rules. Thanks man - I think it's much to do about nothing.

Amen! As Darren has said several times before, don't worry about it and go hiking instead.

darren
06-27-2005, 11:20 AM
It seems that contrary opinions are not welcome here.


Wrong. Contrary opinions are welcome, but to a point. The same people have voiced the same opinions over and over and over. The first time or two it is ok. I gave numerous couteous replies to those first few comments and then made it known after three, four, and five repeated comments each from the same people that I have heard them and do not need to hear it from them again. After that, the same people choose to go ahead and antagonize me again and again.

Maybe the boo hoo comment was a little over the top, but I was trying to make my point. My point being what you said:


Why don't we ALL give this a rest, make up, and go hiking...

Give it a rest. I have heard the complaints of the 5 readers that dont like user reps. I heard it the first time, the second time, the third time, the fouth time, and the fifth time. OK? Get it? I do not need to hear from those same people on the same subject anymore.

Now if me saying "boo hoo" is going to make some people take their ball and go home, then oh well. As Dr Wu said, "this is just a website". He is right. This is just a website. People should not be getting this worked up over a user rep system. Again, if you don't like it, ignore it. And once again, I will say, go take a hike. Then come back and post something about that instead.

- darren

dave.m
06-27-2005, 11:36 AM
Since I have clearly overstayed my welcome, I think it's time for me to stop posting on VFTT, at least for a long while. Perhaps doing so before I am banned will at least allow me to come back.



After reading Tramper Al's comments (including Darren's rude response to him), I'm deleting myself from the VFTT membership list in protest and solidarity.



I believe we're all guests on this free site. Darren isn't obligated to provide this site for anyone. let's keep that in mind before we criticize him. He's the guru, he pays the bills, therefore he makes the rules.

We should bear in mind that this forum operates at 2 different levels. At the technical level, it is a web based forum. There are servers, ISP, some PHP code and MySQL (http://www.vbulletin.com/). And yes, Darren is running things at this level.

But the other level is the community/activity level. What happens when you host a forum and nobody posts to it? Well, you don't really have a forum, do you? For example, rec.skiing.backcountry has pretty much dried up completely. The telemark tips site has sucked away all of the traffic to that news group. Consider what happened at Backcountry Magazine's web site. Couloir's forums got better traffic (despite or because of Dawson's heavy handed moderation - an open question) and Backcountry wisely and quitely just pulled down their forums last year.

There *are* other technically feasible forums that focus on hiking in the northeast. The AMC forums are one well known site. Another is the forums at AlpineZone.com at http://forums.alpinezone.com/forum-1.html I've met the moderators from that site and they seem to be pretty open to ways of building an on-line community. What seperates VFTT is the amount of traffic. This, imo, is what makes it a more vibrant discussion forum......currently.

History suggests that these things have ebbs and flows.

The Serenity Prayer reminds us that we all have choices to make. Darren gets to decide the configuration settings and moderation decisions on this site. We as users, decide whether or not we participate. Voicing our opinions, choosing to leave or choosing to stay (until banned) , these are things that we can decide.

dave.m
06-27-2005, 11:39 AM
Again, if you don't like it, ignore it.

Darren, if we ignore it will you ignore it too?

I thought you said it is important because, among other things, it will give you information about who is or is not a so-called problem child? That is, big amounts of negative feedback could be cause for banning, correct?

Just seeking clarification.

dave.m
06-27-2005, 12:01 PM
I have heard the complaints of the 5 readers that dont like user reps. I heard it the first time, the second time, the third time, the fouth time, and the fifth time. OK? Get it? I do not need to hear from those same people on the same subject anymore.


http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=79903&postcount=33
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=80151&postcount=64
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=80786&postcount=74
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=76884&postcount=29
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=77264&postcount=47
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=80511&postcount=68
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=75615&postcount=1
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=75667&postcount=2

What bums me out is that many of these comments are coming from some of the people I consider to be the best posters to this forum.

darren
06-27-2005, 12:13 PM
Dave.m - ebb and flow? yah, that is fine. I have ALWAYS said, if you don't like it here, leave. I truely mean that. The people that remain here are the one that like the way I have been running this site for the last 10 years. Which, by the way, is longer than any of the other websites that you mentioned have been online.

As for if I will ignore it, no, I will not ignore it. If you don't like it, ignore it. But I will not. As for someone getting banned, well, if someone gets a user rep of -50, then they are probably already well on their way to getting banned.


Tamper Al - the numer 20 was an exageration, but I just did a quick search and in 2 minutes I found almost 10 posts from you about the user rep being bad. Many of them came after my polite replies. When I posted my reply to BrentD22 I said to myself, "wow, I can't believe Tramper Al hasn't posted something negative in this thread yet." You posted your negative comments that were a flame directly on me less than 15 minutes later. I also felt that your comments were also a flame on the other people that have a high user rep. For that post, which is ok according to the user rep rules (which I will repost again tonight in a sticky), I gave you a negative vote. My vote counts for 10 points because I am the moderator. Because my vote counts for 10 points, I rarely give out rep points. In this case, I thought that your flame of me after I have made it clear that I have heard enough of this topic deserved it. I appreciate the knowledge you have shared over the years on this site, but if you feel that you need to leave over a fear of being judged on your user rep then so be it.

- darren

Peakbagr
06-27-2005, 01:32 PM
I rarely jump into a thread when Darren is involved, but am making an exception here.

All of the folks who have been getting worked up on this issue are valued members of this community. That folks are concerned enough to consider resigning or withdrawing speaks to the importance of this board in their lives.
I'd simply ask that everyone count to 10 and try and forget some of things that may have said here in anger. Its hot outside, and maybe even hotter in here.
The moderators get a lot of desirable and less-desirable criticism in PMs and email. Sometimes that frustration comes out on both sides of a discussion.
I know I'm guilty of it...We're all human. Hope those who said they're walking away will reconsider.

Peakbagr

Jasonst
06-27-2005, 01:40 PM
Nice, I just got zinged for sticking up for the site owner :o The criticism stated that the person contributed to the site... Last I checked, that was voluntary. If you give $$ voluntarily to a site, are you entitled to "expect" special favor? Give me a break.

This is starting to remind me of an episode of the Simpsons where they are allowed to conduct shock treatment on each other member of the family. Too funny...

ALGonquin Bob
06-27-2005, 01:56 PM
You're right, Peakbagr.
We're all passionate about our hiking and VFTT (obviously). If we didn't care, we wouldn't be posting on this thread. I would like to see everyone relax a little, maybe PM some apologies (everybody), and get back to tallking about hiking in the NorthEast. -Bob VH (AlG)

rondak46
06-27-2005, 04:44 PM
Mods, Please, just Ignore these threads and Delete them as fast as they show up. Sure some will call it censorship, just delete those as well. Post a sticky regarding the rep points and lock it. Don't let the negetive feedback cause you to start hurling bombs, insults, points, accusations or anything else. Just delete them and don't respond to them. It just gets ugly. AND IT IS NOT WORTH YOUR TIME!!!

---Edited--------------------------

This is what I recieved as a response to this post, along with a point loss... anonymous of course...

"Who are you to tell them what to do. If you do not like it, view another thread"

To that person I would say I was giving advise. I think that is appropriate and I think your taking of points, and response was inapropriate and against the rules for rep points.

Mike

darren
06-27-2005, 08:23 PM
Mods, Please, just Ignore these threads and Delete them as fast as they show up.

...

This is what I recieved as a response to this post, along with a point loss... anonymous of course...

"Who are you to tell them what to do. If you do not like it, view another thread"



You have the same right to tell me what to do as everyone else. Your feedback and suggestions are always welcome...as long as you limit it to stating the same thing only 2 or 3 times. :D

- darren

jade
06-27-2005, 09:36 PM
For the person who gave me a red square for deleting my post, an explanation is in order. My intention was to send someone a Private Message. As soon as I hit 'send' I realized my mistake and deleted what was for him to contemplate only. I rewrote the message and sent it as a PM as originally intended.....

Ok, so I'll take that green square whenever you're ready........no apology necessary.....

Love and kisses to everyone.....mmmmmmmmmmmSMACK!! :p

Ooh, ooh, ooh, this is my 100th post....I AM SENIOR!!!

....Jade

dave.m
06-28-2005, 06:43 AM
You have the same right to tell me what to do as everyone else. Your feedback and suggestions are always welcome...as long as you limit it to stating the same thing only 2 or 3 times.

Hey Darren, this would be an excellent addition to the site rules.

This is a point that you've made repeatedly now in various threads, so it is clearly a position you believe in.

Coming from the point of view of a concerned reader trying to give constructive feedback, having a statement to this effect in the site rules would certainly help set expectations more accurately.

Hope this is helpful,

darren
06-28-2005, 06:52 AM
Hey Darren, this would be an excellent addition to the site rules.




How about this for an addition - common sense applies. Let it go already.

- darren

BrentD22
07-01-2005, 08:42 PM
Darren this is your site. You can do as you please so I have no problem with you using the rep points on your site.

I must say that I haven't made repeated posts about the feature.

Now I'm going to go back to reading some other posts out there "trying" to ignore the rep points feature. I'm sure my rep points took a killing from this thread, but oh well.

I would like to say that if the rep points thing does work out a year from now I will be the first to publicly swallow my words and give props to Darren.

BrentD22
07-01-2005, 08:52 PM
I already looked at my user CP at my rep points. I'm failing to ignore the feature already. I'm a failure...

Because I have no problem saying I care about what others think about me (even though it's not "cool" to care about others thoughts of you). I might use the feature in "special" occasions. I will though be big enough to type my username in the comments section. Maybe this trend will be respected by others and catch on.

For anyone that gave me negative rep points for this past thread I am jinxing your next hike with rain!

anita514
07-04-2005, 08:27 AM
I don't mind the user rep thing, but I do mind people giving me little red squares because they disagree with what I'm writing. if I was being a nimrod I'd understand, but giving people (who barely post at that) red squares because you don't agree with their opinions is pretty lame and childish, and it also discourages participation.
that's the only major flaw I can think of with the user rep function. people who disagree with you will give negative rep points anonymously rather than discuss it like adults in the thread or via private messages.

imarchant
07-05-2005, 12:14 PM
I don't mind the user rep thing, but I do mind people giving me little red squares because they disagree with what I'm writing. if I was being a nimrod I'd understand, but giving people (who barely post at that) red squares because you don't agree with their opinions is pretty lame and childish, and it also discourages participation.
that's the only major flaw I can think of with the user rep function. people who disagree with you will give negative rep points anonymously rather than discuss it like adults in the thread or via private messages.

I agree. My philosophy is to give out mainly positive reps. I reserve giving negitives to incorrect information or truely offensive posts. I'm sure if a new poster gets some negative rep they are hesistant to post again. This system will work best if positive points are given frequently by many users to good posts. After the novelty and negitive feelings have worn off this will be a good system if used correctly, per Darren's rules.

dave.m
07-05-2005, 12:58 PM
I don't mind the user rep thing, but I do mind people giving me little red squares because they disagree with what I'm writing.

Anita,

Darren's rules on using the feedback feature clearly states, "negative votes should not be cast on someone due to disagreement over an issue."

It remains a bit unclear to me what the acceptable thing to do is when you think you are getting negatives unfairly. I would tend to follow-up to my own post asking whoever is dinging me to clarify why they are doing so. Problem is, this may be seen as "fanning the flames" of discontent around the reputation feedback feature which in turn, will generate more negatives for you. Heck, I've no doubt that this post will generate negative for me (sigh).

Darren has gone out of his way to post the rules for this feature up as a sticky, something that I think is just fantastic. I think the best thing we can do to make the system work is to stand up and try to hold others accountable when they are abusing the system and handing out negatives in a manner that is contrary to what Darren has called for. Point people to Darren's sticky and ask for clarification would be my advice.

By the way, I, like you, don't have the time to post freaquently. I usually only post on those rare issues that I feel strongly about or have something (I hope) to contribute. Unfortunately, I'm not alone in feeling strongly about backcountry issues so it may be that getting red squares (unjustly) will be a reality for me and I won't have a bunch of posting time to try to make up for it.

anita514
07-05-2005, 03:20 PM
imarchant: I've only given out positive rep points. I haven't seen anything on here that deserves a red square (ie: flame wars, trolling, bogus info, etc.) yet. as for it 'scaring' away new(er) members; I'm not so worried about having a less-than-perfect reputation, my main concern is getting so many red squares that I get booted off the site. that would stink, especially if all I was doing was stating different opinions/POVs.

dave: I agree that people should be held accountable. I think it's only fair that people give at least a reason why they are red-squaring you, if only to let us know what we did wrong, or if we posted wrong info, etc. etc. hiding behind anonymity is lame.

that being said, I think life will go on for me despite my tarnished reputation :p

David Metsky
07-05-2005, 03:43 PM
my main concern is getting so many red squares that I get booted off the site. that would stink, especially if all I was doing was stating different opinions/POVs.
I can't speak for Darren, but I'm pretty sure that you won't ever be kicked off this site for stating different opinions or for red squares by themselves. That's never been an issue here, and reputation points is highly unlikely to change that. I think of reputation points as a canary in a coal mine sort of thing; just a heads up to how many people on the site feel. Your posts, good or bad, will matter, not the reputation points.

Another website I frequent has one overarching rule: Don't be a jerk. Stating different opinions will never rise to the "jerk" level. Stating your opinions (common or differing) in an overbearing or obnoxious manner may get you booted, but it would do that before we had reputation points.

-dave-

chomp
07-05-2005, 03:51 PM
I can't speak for Darren, but I'm pretty sure that you won't ever be kicked off this site for stating different opinions or for red squares by themselves. That's never been an issue here, and reputation points is highly unlikely to change that. I think of reputation points as a canary in a coal mine sort of thing; just a heads up to how many people on the site feel. Your posts, good or bad, will matter, not the reputation points.

Another website I frequent has one overarching rule: Don't be a jerk. Stating different opinions will never rise to the "jerk" level. Stating your opinions (common or differing) in an overbearing or obnoxious manner may get you booted, but it would do that before we had reputation points.

-dave-

And you can trust this guy, since he has two green squares. :)

RGF1
07-05-2005, 04:05 PM
Anita,

Darren's rules on using the feedback feature clearly states, "negative votes should not be cast on someone due to disagreement over an issue."

It remains a bit unclear to me what the acceptable thing to do is when you think you are getting negatives unfairly. I would tend to follow-up to my own post asking whoever is dinging me to clarify why they are doing so. Problem is, this may be seen as "fanning the flames" of discontent around the reputation feedback feature which in turn, will generate more negatives for you. Heck, I've no doubt that this post will generate negative for me (sigh).

Darren has gone out of his way to post the rules for this feature up as a sticky, something that I think is just fantastic. I think the best thing we can do to make the system work is to stand up and try to hold others accountable when they are abusing the system and handing out negatives in a manner that is contrary to what Darren has called for. Point people to Darren's sticky and ask for clarification would be my advice.

.



Doug I agree with you on this . I do have a question how do we hold some one responsible for abusing the syaytem ? It is anonymous unless some one "signs " there rating .
I recieved a negative rating for no appernt reason the post was not even controversial. I just thought HUH what is thier problem or did they accidnetly give a negative rep? , There are always going ot be pople who act like high school kids and ding some one they do not like or agree with. It is very childish and cowardly to do that .
If you wish to give a negative rating have the guts to say who you are and why.
If tere is a awy to stop a few from abusing the sysyem I am all for it. As for What Anita said . She is right
I also will still express my opinions and I have not really seen any trolling or flaming in a while. Sure people disagree but that is life. If people want every one to agree with them and not criticize the AMC maybe they should seek out another venue where every one is exactly the same and never disagree bet it is one dull forum .
Darren has laid out the rules clearly and I guess a few nitwits see fit to break them . In the end I think it will work out as they can only do that for so long before people catch on to them .
Notre on Grammar and Spleeling I have a injury that makes it diffucult for me to type and sometimes even Spellcheck does not help. I do try though.

David Metsky
07-05-2005, 04:43 PM
I just noticed in my 'User CP' that most of the squares are green, and a few are blue. What's the difference?
Blue squares are from users without enough posts to "count" in the tally. Once they get enough posts under their belts they will be able to add or detract from your score, but for now it's just informational.

-dave-

DougPaul
07-05-2005, 06:37 PM
Blue squares are from users without enough posts to "count" in the tally. Once they get enough posts under their belts they will be able to add or detract from your score, but for now it's just informational.
IMO, a problem with the blue squares is that they obscure whether the reader was approving or disapproving of one's post.

I have no problem with their having on effect on one's score.

Doug

BrentD22
07-05-2005, 10:01 PM
We as members of this free service can make the site as good or bad as we want it. Darren only has so much push/pull on how well we post, how well we use rep points, and who signs up for this site. If we all just agree to follow Darrens very good rules pretaining to rep points there shouldn't be an issue. If people start abusing the rep point attribute on the site we (the members) will be the ones screwing up the site. Let's do it right!

I hope you all understand I'm just trying to just get the most and make the most out of this website!

Panama Jack
07-07-2005, 08:27 PM
An anonymous red square for being a smoker! LOL I think we need another lesson in how this thing is supposed to work. Come on folks lets grow up!

SherpaKroto
07-08-2005, 07:50 AM
(deep breath). OK, anyone up for a hike and a beer? sheesh!

DougPaul
07-08-2005, 09:43 AM
An anonymous red square for being a smoker! LOL I think we need another lesson in how this thing is supposed to work. Come on folks lets grow up!
IMO, many of the ills of the user rep system can be cured by having the system label each rating with its sender. If people know their ratings will be signed there will be far fewer irresponsible or friviolous ratings.

Doug

Jasonst
07-08-2005, 09:45 AM
IMO, many of the ills of the user rep system can be cured by having the system label each rating with its sender. If people know their ratings will be signed there will be far fewer irresponsible or friviolous ratings.

Doug

Right on, Doug. You are quickly becoming the wise sage of VFTT!! :D

Too bad this system won't let me give you any more positive rep points!

carole
07-08-2005, 10:47 AM
I have yet to use this system but agree that anonymity is not to anyones benefit.

sli74
07-08-2005, 10:56 AM
At the risk of getting dinged again, I am just going to add that even when people sign it, you can still get negatives unfairly AND be called names (it has happened to me) SO I have decided to sit back and relax and just see what happens and instead of jumping everytime someone gets a negative and posting about it and getting upset maybe just ignore it and go hiking with Sherpa instead :D

sli74

Rik
07-08-2005, 11:04 AM
I think we are giving too much power and control to those using the system inappropriately. My guess is that they get a kick out getting people worked up and by discussing them in threads is probably great feedback for them. My suggestion is to ignore these folks. Anyone valuable will be signing their comments.

RGF1
07-08-2005, 11:15 AM
At the risk of getting dinged again, I am just going to add that even when people sign it, you can still get negatives unfairly AND be called names (it has happened to me) SO I have decided to sit back and relax and just see what happens and instead of jumping everytime someone gets a negative and posting about it and getting upset maybe just ignore it and go hiking with Sherpa instead :D

sli74


Seema,
I cannot see why some one would call you names . I enjoy your posts
I guess ther are a few malcontents who get a thrill out of dinging some one it is easy and cowardly to do so anonymously .
I agree with Doug about having to "sign" in order to give out points to take them away.
I do not know if it is possible or the software for the forum allows for it. .
Hey if Sherpa k has bottle of Ibuprophen. I ll go hiking I 'll even pitch in and bring beers to share . My knee still hurts from my adventure on Pryamid Peak.

Mr. X
07-08-2005, 11:30 AM
At the risk of getting dinged again, I am just going to add that even when people sign it, you can still get negatives unfairly AND be called names (it has happened to me) SO I have decided to sit back and relax and just see what happens and instead of jumping everytime someone gets a negative and posting about it and getting upset maybe just ignore it and go hiking with Sherpa instead :D

sli74

I think we should organize a "I don't care about user rep's" group hike.

dr_wu002
07-08-2005, 11:37 AM
I think we should organize a "I don't care about user rep's" group hike.
Honestly, the red squares don't hurt... Darren doesn't punch you in the face every time you get one. I prefer 'em anonymous -- if someone has an issue with me and wants to sign it, I'd prefer they do it with a PM. I enjoy chatting. The squares thing is just fun and games though!

-Dr. Wu

jade
07-08-2005, 11:48 AM
I'm made of rubber
Your made of glue
Whatever you say
Bounces off me
And sticks to you!!

xo......Jade

imarchant
07-08-2005, 12:15 PM
I think we are giving too much power and control to those using the system inappropriately. My guess is that they get a kick out getting people worked up and by discussing them in threads is probably great feedback for them. My suggestion is to ignore these folks. Anyone valuable will be signing their comments.

Excatly, overall it is working. Do a sort by reputation on the member listing then look at how few people have a rating of less than they started with, its about 20. On the positive side there are about 270 members with ratings greater than the 10 they started with. Just keep giving points where they are deserved.

"Don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch"

SherpaKroto
07-08-2005, 01:05 PM
Seema, I'll hike with you anytime. I might even let you and Brian call me names :o
RGF1: at my age, Vitamin "I" is one of the 10 essentials.

I like "X"s idea. Any excuse for a hike is good enough for me.

Goose Eye, tomorrow, in the rain. Gotta love it!

dave.m
07-08-2005, 01:49 PM
IMO, many of the ills of the user rep system can be cured by having the system label each rating with its sender. If people know their ratings will be signed there will be far fewer irresponsible or friviolous ratings.


I agree with this post.

dave.m
07-08-2005, 02:02 PM
Do a sort by reputation on the member listing then look at how few people have a rating of less than they started with, its about 20. On the positive side there are about 270 members with ratings greater than the 10 they started with.

I'm not seeing this. I can sort the list according to reputation points but all I see is the number of squares that people have accumulated. The range on that metric is still very tight, ranging from 2 green to 1 green.

I can't see the actual number of points that anybody has, much less if that number is above or below the starting number of 10.

Help?

dr_wu002
07-08-2005, 02:06 PM
Help?
If you pass your mouse over the green squares it'll give you more info. If it says, such and such a user is an "unknown quantity at this point" then I guess that represents 0-9 points. 10-49 points will give you "so and so is OK so far" while more than 50 points gives you "so and so will be famous soon enough." After 100 points you get an extra green square but it doesn't give you a new slogan. Dave Metsky and Seema's 2 Green Square thing still only says that they'll be famous soon...

-Dr. Wu

RGF1
07-08-2005, 02:48 PM
Seema, I'll hike with you anytime. I might even let you and Brian call me names :o
RGF1: at my age, Vitamin "I" is one of the 10 essentials.

I like "X"s idea. Any excuse for a hike is good enough for me.

Goose Eye, tomorrow, in the rain. Gotta love it!

Sherpa K it is my pack too. I take two before every hike or bike ride. right now it is not working though.
Maybe the Francoina ridge and cold beres after . Then I will just have to set up my tent at the campground . my knne might hurt to much to drive. I was limping after after my flight from Aspen to Denver than Logan , just from sitting all that time.

imarchant
07-08-2005, 03:18 PM
I'm not seeing this. I can sort the list according to reputation points but all I see is the number of squares that people have accumulated. The range on that metric is still very tight, ranging from 2 green to 1 green.

I can't see the actual number of points that anybody has, much less if that number is above or below the starting number of 10.

Help?

The people with an equal number of rep points are grouped alphbetically. it becomes more apparant the further down this list you go.

Puma concolor
07-08-2005, 07:40 PM
Just call me "Mr. Low Profile." I've gotten almost zero positives OR negatives (except when I made a SherpaJohn crack). This is fine with me ... we should be more concerned with hiking than with this silliness.

BrentD22
07-08-2005, 09:53 PM
This site was just fine before user rep points.

Darren has asked to do it a certain way and people decide to act like jerks. It'd odd when hiking I usually get the best impressions of people out in the back country. Something must happen when they get behind their computer and the jerkyness comes out.


I promise to all VFTTers that I will make comments like these below when making rep point votes.

Approve - Good fun thread! ~BrentD22

or

Disaprove - Hiking Mt. Washington in January is ok without crampons is stupid advice! ~BrentD22

dave.m
07-11-2005, 08:44 AM
Something must happen when they get behind their computer and the jerkyness comes out.


My father has a friend who was recognized in the 90's as one of the first so-called cyber-phsycologists. Among other things, he pioneered the use of computers to gather qualatative data by using natural language parsing programs coupled with AI rule sets.

Anyway... one his findings was a strong correlation between computer use and anti-social behaviors. I asked him if there was any suggestion about the causality. That is, does computer use make people anti-social or are people with anti-social behaviors drawn to computers. He did not have enough data to settle the question but his hunch was the former. Computers provide instant and reliable responses, very much unlike people. Another aspect was noted when they used computers to collect qualatative data. People pour their hearts out to a computer keyboard in ways they don't face/face. "Dear Diary" on crack.

Might explain why surly system administrators take pride in wearing their "BOFH" t-shirts, the existance of flaming and cyber-affairs.

Quoting Pogo (or was it Albert the Alligator), we have met the enemy and it us.

bigmoose
07-11-2005, 07:08 PM
Prior to my participation in this site, I would've agreed that computer-happy people were deficient on the social side. However, my meeting and hiking with some of the more steady contributors to VFTT...hikers with 1427, 997, and 640 posts for instance...are as human and socially active as possible. When the web was in its infancy, perhaps the pioneers were lacking in social skills. I don't think that's the case any longer.

mavs00
07-11-2005, 08:11 PM
Prior to my participation in this site, I would've agreed that computer-happy people were deficient on the social side. However, my meeting and hiking with some of the more steady contributors to VFTT...hikers with 1427, 997, and 640 posts for instance...are as human and socially active as possible. When the web was in its infancy, perhaps the pioneers were lacking in social skills. I don't think that's the case any longer.

Hey, What a coincidence................ I have 640 posts :D (errrr, well 641 now :rolleyes: ).

With all do respect Dave, I'm not quite sure I'd dig that deep into it. I find that people drawn to VFTT, in general, have more in common with me than the general population does. Sure we differ on many things, because we are individuals, but the one bond that we have is that we are passionate about our recreation and way WE CHOOSE to spend our free time.

I'm leaving in a day to spend a few days bushwhacking 3 Adirondack HH peaks just for the shear pleasure of fighting and pushing my way through nasty thick conifer stands, ugly fields of blowdown and precipitous cliff just to make it up to summits that I KNOW will provide no view. Should I tell people at work of my plans for my hard-earned "VACATION" days?

Are you kidding, they'd be pinning red squares on my so fringgin fast you'd think I was a Williiam Verner print :cool: . Here, I'd get knowing smiles and an affirming tip of the cap. Let the cyber-"Psychologists" call me anti-social, but I'd not trade my cyber hiking partners for anything, they understand my sickness all to well ;)