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skiguy
08-24-2005, 08:31 AM
Not that I am big on how many posts I have made on this site,but I noticed as of today the # I have made is less than yesterday. Has anyone else seen that? I guess that it might be due to participation in threads that have been deleted. Not a big deal just curious.

dr_wu002
08-24-2005, 08:36 AM
Not that I am big on how many posts I have made on this site,but I noticed as of today the # I have made is less than yesterday. Has anyone else seen that? I guess that it might be due to participation in threads that have been deleted. Not a big deal just curious.
Sherpa John (http://www.vftt.org/forums/member.php?u=1412) deleted a number of his threads last night. If you ever posted to any of them your responses will have been lost into cyberspace. My count went down by about 20.

-Dr. Wu

sapblatt
08-24-2005, 09:06 AM
HikerBob did the same... :(

dr_wu002
08-24-2005, 09:11 AM
HikerBob did the same... :(
FWIW, Hikerbob's posts (http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8451) are still there so your post count does not change. Only HikerBob himself is lost to cyberspace as he requested.

-Dr. Wu

sapblatt
08-24-2005, 09:15 AM
FWIW, Hikerbob's posts (http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8451) are still there so your post count does not change. Only HikerBob himself is lost to cyberspace as he requested.

-Dr. Wu
Thanks for the correction

chomp
08-24-2005, 10:06 AM
Deleting posts or users from VFTT will not help to cover up what has happened. The truth will be known soon enough.

Mark_Goodearl
08-24-2005, 10:23 AM
Deleting posts or users from VFTT will not help to cover up what has happened. The truth will be known soon enough.
I wish I could stay perpetually in sync with this site like others seem to be able to but I must need more sleep or something. WHAT has happened? It all sounds so mysterious.

Blue
08-24-2005, 10:25 AM
Deleting posts or users from VFTT will not help to cover up what has happened. The truth will be known soon enough.


Starting to sound like an x-files episode....

huh? :confused:

Neil
08-24-2005, 10:28 AM
Do you mean that anyone can delete an entire thread if they were the person who started that thread? This would mean that within the context of the forum you own your threads. Who a thunk it?

sapblatt
08-24-2005, 10:30 AM
you can delete or edit your own threads

chomp
08-24-2005, 10:33 AM
I am holding my tounge (barely) to give the other party a chance to make a post themselves, explain their actions and (hopefully) apologize. If that is not done soon, I will disclose what I know. The truth will come out soon, I promise, but that is all I am going to say publicly for now.

RGF1
08-24-2005, 10:39 AM
I wish I could stay perpetually in sync with this site like others seem to be able to but I must need more sleep or something. WHAT has happened? It all sounds so mysterious.
I check my email a few times a day as I often hear from person wanting work done or buying wood. I usually check VFFT when I do .I missed both what happend I never saw any thing wrong . I looked foraward to Hiker Bobs Photos.
What ever happend I hope it is not something that would hurt VFFT or other people who post here .
I do not get why some one would do something to hurt Hiker Bob.

dr_wu002
08-24-2005, 11:05 AM
I am holding my tounge (barely) to give the other party a chance to make a post themselves, explain their actions and (hopefully) apologize. If that is not done soon, I will disclose what I know. The truth will come out soon, I promise, but that is all I am going to say publicly for now.
Oh, c'mon, Chomp.

Sherpa John owes people an explanation. I'm not pointing the finger and saying guilty or innocent but he has to stand before the people that have donated to Team Sherpa (in the name of Diabetes Research) and come clean about his finances and whatnot.

He sent out a letter to a bunch of people last night saying that he was quitting VFTT. But he also attached a private e-mail that Darren sent him. Basically the e-mail detailed Team Sherpa's financial woes and the fact that the money YOU donate does not go where you think it is going.

We need some honesty and not this garbage run-around about how dedicated he is. Let's get numbers. Sherpa John's heart is probably in the right place but instead of running away now (and deleting his posts), he's gotta stand in front of the people who supported him and Team Sherpa.

-Dr. Wu

sp1936
08-24-2005, 11:15 AM
Like some others, I'm not tuned into this site enough to know all that's going on. However, some recent threads made it obvious that there was an interesting story taking shape. Beginning to connect the dots...

Steve

summit1
08-24-2005, 11:29 AM
He better come clean right here. There are alot of people that gave their hard earned money to his cause. I'm sure someone would love to blow the whistle on him if he doesn't come clean. I don't think he can run from this by deleting himself from this forum, gosh-anyone that bought his film knows where he lives, the color of his house and even the license plate number on his car. Not a very good position to be in right now. Considering Martha Stewart did time for something much less severe.

Quietman
08-24-2005, 11:34 AM
Let's not go overboard on Martha Stewart comparisons :( . Hopefully SJ will provide an explanation to the people that deserve it.

I need to go for a hike!!!!

dr_wu002
08-24-2005, 11:36 AM
Let's all take a deep breath and then (after you exhale) maybe get a beer tonight & avoid a flame-fest.

SJ is not on trial and isn't going to be lynched. But he has to be honest and also willing to answer some questions.

What needs to have been said is already said on this thread... no need to make this thing go crazy.

(Oh, and then let's go hiking. I second Quiteman's suggestion! After the beer of course)

-Dr. Wu

summit1
08-24-2005, 11:41 AM
But he has to be honest and also willing to answer some questions.

My point exactly...

Double Bow
08-24-2005, 11:58 AM
Seeing as that he has deleted almost all of the threads he has ever started, his profile, and his avatar in addition to saying that he will no longer post on VFTT, I don't think that he will be returning to provide answers to people's questions.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Hopefully, he will come forward and either clear his name with facts and figures or apologize for any wrong doing. When you put yourself in the public spotlight and ask for help from the public, you and your actions, are accountable to them.

Now, about that beer... oh... wait... I'm at work! :(

dr_wu002
08-24-2005, 12:01 PM
Sherpa John has A LOT of supporters here who really care for him and know that he means well. I think people will continue to support him and even welcome him back to the community -- because he is a good person. However, he's used VFTT as a platform many times for advertising Team Sherpa so I think he should come back here and come clean. He's not going to be crucified. Maybe he'll find more help here than he thinks. If he runs though he's not going to find anything.

People here have been accepting and kind to him and I hope that if he does talk about what's going on that they continue to be good to him & help him. This isn't a call to cut his balls off.

-Dr. Wu

TDawg
08-24-2005, 12:29 PM
I don't think he can run from this by deleting himself from this forum, gosh-anyone that bought his film knows where he lives, the color of his house and even the license plate number on his car. Not a very good position to be in right now.

HA...very true...but I think we need to relax I'm sure he's not a criminal.

spaddock
08-24-2005, 12:30 PM
I'm confused.... How is SJ and HikerBob related? I just read HikerBob's "Finishing 48" TR the other day and thought it was fantastic... now he's gone forever?


-Shayne

TDawg
08-24-2005, 12:50 PM
Only HikerBob himself is lost to cyberspace as he requested.

-Dr. Wu

Looks to be so

keepin' on
08-24-2005, 01:09 PM
Now, about that beer... oh... wait... I'm at work! :(

in some places they call this "Happy Hour".......enjoy a cold one on company time! Invite your boss, they'll love it.

chomp
08-24-2005, 01:39 PM
Here it is, all spelled out:

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?p=95256#post95256

Camper58
08-24-2005, 02:30 PM
I'm confused.... How is SJ and HikerBob related?


I'm confused as well. How is HikerBob involved with this situation?

dr_wu002
08-24-2005, 02:34 PM
I'm confused as well. How is HikerBob involved with this situation?
He's not. He asked Darren to delete him due to an unrelated issue and Darren obliged.

-Dr. Wu

spencer
08-24-2005, 03:11 PM
I'll miss Hiker Bob - too bad. I hope it wasn' related to SJ.

Well, SJ got his 15 minutes. That seems to be what he wanted all along.


Do rep points get deleted, too? Funny, one of the very few red squares I've gotten (anonymously) seems to have disappeared.

spencer

Camper58
08-24-2005, 03:14 PM
Dr_Wu - Thank You. Sorry for the assumption on my part. :o

dundare
08-24-2005, 04:25 PM
Whoa - what happenedto Hiker Bob? Even the VFTT link is gone from his sight? Sad times indeed...

LenDawg
08-24-2005, 04:27 PM
Chomp - you have to relax. Your truth may not be the real truth. Afterall, it seems that you have your own agenda.

funkyfreddy
08-24-2005, 04:37 PM
Chomp - you have to relax. Your truth may not be the real truth. Afterall, it seems that you have your own agenda.

Yes, perhaps Chomp does have an agenda, but it's an honorable one in my opinion. He, Darren, and others are trying to protect the VFTT community.....

.....and no, I don't think Chomp should relax.... he's being proactive and courageous!

Let the buyer beware and the truth set us free.........

mavs00
08-24-2005, 04:41 PM
I'll miss Hiker Bob - too bad. I hope it wasn' related to SJ.

Well, SJ got his 15 minutes. That seems to be what he wanted all along.


Do rep points get deleted, too? Funny, one of the very few red squares I've gotten (anonymously) seems to have disappeared.

spencer

Technical point ------- I posted a TR a bit back that was controversial and it got to the point more of a distraction than a useful TR so I nuked it. I got about 4-5 red dings on the thread in question and when I deleted it, they all disappeared from User CP but my point total stayed the same.

I'm under the impression that if the thread in which you get dinged, or even the person that dinged you disappears, the offending red square do too. Points however, once given, do not seem affected. Once added (or subtracted), they are there to stay.

dundare
08-24-2005, 04:47 PM
I would suggest that you not burn bridges on your way out SJ. If you believe that you can put all this behind you, why engage in a war of words that in no way serves you.

Sherpa John
08-24-2005, 05:17 PM
from hikerbob...

John,

Not sure how long a post would stay up but if just a few people see it I would be pleased.

Bob

My withdrawal from VFTT.

I am making this statement in order to clear up any misunderstandings as to my reasons for asking Darren to remove my presence from Views From The Top.

In a nutshell this is what transpired:

I posted a short supportive comment in response to Sherpa Johns 'Fitch' thread.

An anonymous member gave me a negative reputation vote for the post.

I created a new thread under Site Feedback citing my post without reference to context and asked if this warranted a negative reputation vote.

Darren deleted the thread in Site Feedback and PMed me saying he did so in order to not stir up the issue of reputation points yet again.

I replied to his PM saying I was disappointed.

He PMed me again and told me "There are a lot of people who do not like John" and that was "reason enough" to give me a negative reputation vote.

This clearly violates the forum policy on user reputations which states:

"As for someone liking or disliking a particular non-profit organization, or any other controversial topic like that, negative votes should not be cast on someone due to disagreement over an issue."

Darren's response clearly showed he knew of and condoned the dishing out of negative reputation votes to anyone showing support for John.

That Darren does not like John is no secret, I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. What I find repugnant, and my reason for disassociating myself with VFTT, is the abuse of power that allowed a concerted campaign against one of its members, and his friends, to not only continue but apparently be encouraged in flagrant breach of the site rules.

darren
08-24-2005, 10:03 PM
from hikerbob...

John,

Not sure how long a post would stay up but if just a few people see it I would be pleased.

Bob

My withdrawal from VFTT.

I am making this statement in order to clear up any misunderstandings as to my reasons for asking Darren to remove my presence from Views From The Top.

In a nutshell this is what transpired:

I posted a short supportive comment in response to Sherpa Johns 'Fitch' thread.

An anonymous member gave me a negative reputation vote for the post.

I created a new thread under Site Feedback citing my post without reference to context and asked if this warranted a negative reputation vote.

Darren deleted the thread in Site Feedback and PMed me saying he did so in order to not stir up the issue of reputation points yet again.

I replied to his PM saying I was disappointed.

He PMed me again and told me "There are a lot of people who do not like John" and that was "reason enough" to give me a negative reputation vote.

This clearly violates the forum policy on user reputations which states:

"As for someone liking or disliking a particular non-profit organization, or any other controversial topic like that, negative votes should not be cast on someone due to disagreement over an issue."




I'll stop it right there, because Team Sherpa is not a non-profit. :D

Seriously, the whole deal was that HikerBob got a red square for his post that was a praise of Sherpa John. This hapenned during the last week when there were several people that were aware of Team Sherpa only sending 45% of their proceeds to ADA. Needless to say, those people were very angry at Sherpa John. So when HikerBob posted his praise of Sherpa John, one of the people that were really pissed at Sherpa John gave HikerBob a red square.

I felt that HikerBob should be let in on why some people were so angry at Sherpa John so I told him the entire story of the financial Sherpagate (http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8627&page=1&pp=15). HikerBob continued to have full admiration of Sherpa John and then asked me to remove him from the site. I figured he was just hot because he was friends with John so I didn't delete his account and I waited for him to cool off. The next day he asked me again to delete his account so at that point I did.

When HikerBob says:

my reason for disassociating myself with VFTT, is the abuse of power that allowed a concerted campaign against one of its members, and his friends, to not only continue but apparently be encouraged in flagrant breach of the site rules.

He is just plain wrong. A concerted campaign? BS. There were a few of us trying to get to the bottom of what happened to the money that was donated to Team Sherpa. Maybe it was a campaign, but not a campaign against a site member, it was a campaign to seek the truth and maintain the integrity of this website.

- darren

Zimmer
08-24-2005, 10:17 PM
Just a suggestion from someone who spends more time lurking than posting: it might be worth considering changing the setup so that users can't delete their threads. This is possible with vBulletin. It can be discouraging for users to spend time crafting a well-thought-out response to a thread only to discover that it has disappeared into the virtual ether because the thread originator deleted the OP. The OP can still edit the first post, but not delete it (taking the responses along with it).

Admins would still be able to delete threads when appropriate.

dundare
08-25-2005, 08:32 AM
Yeah it looks like the Team Sherpa thread got deleted - doesnt it make more sense to lock a thread (if done by admin) than delete it?

McRat
08-25-2005, 08:39 AM
MODS - I thought this might be of interest. I had hoped to post it in a now deleted thread. Please feel free to delete this message if deemed off-topic.
----------------------------

I spoke to John yesterday. He has made getting a CPA to audit and correct Team Sherpa's books, getting an attorney for advice, and setting up Team Sherpa correctly his top priorities.

When you get beyond an avatar picture and text, you have a young guy who feels absolutely terrible that his inexperience has stood to damage the reputation of Team Sherpa and it's goals, and he is determined to clear up any confusion and correct any mistakes made.

While I think he feels his intentions were good and that some of the criticism is over-the-top, he's glad he is finding out about these problems now while they are still repairable.

Team Sherpa is technically starting from scratch, hopefully with lessons learned, correct advice, and a determination to make it a transparent entity that donors can be proud to be part of.

Time will tell how this works out, and I think we'd all agree it is best for John to stay out of the fray until everything works itself out.

There may be corrections in paperwork, there may be a correction of poor decisions and an apology, but I don't think we'll find any deliberate fraud.

If I'm wrong, the AGs office has already gone to work and can be trusted to persecute SJ accordingly, and rightfully so.

We generally all get along fairly well on VFTT, and though John has both detractors and supporters on this site, let's not all get into petty squabbles until we see what happens. The people who brought this up want to see money going to fight diabetes, and so does Team Sherpa.

chomp
08-25-2005, 08:50 AM
Yeah it looks like the Team Sherpa thread got deleted - doesnt it make more sense to lock a thread (if done by admin) than delete it?

It got deleted by accident. It is being rebuilt now.

spencer
08-25-2005, 08:52 AM
My main complaint over the last year that SJ has been around is that he makes everything about him. Now that he's backpeddling, he still seems to think it's about him.

Here we are, yet again, devoting much bandwidth to him. Unfortunately, now we are spending time discussing his mistakes. While I don't think he's very sincere, he did agree to walk away from this.

So, I propose that future updates be put on the Team Sherpa site (Wild Whites, I think?) so that VFTT is no longer burdened.

Long live VFTT!

spencer

Carmel
08-25-2005, 08:58 AM
I've actually never been able to view www.wildwhites.com. I have tried to view it several times, I'm not sure what the deal is.

I can view http://www.48movie.com/ about his movie.

that's it...

RGF1
08-25-2005, 08:59 AM
Chomp - you have to relax. Your truth may not be the real truth. Afterall, it seems that you have your own agenda.


Correct me If I am wrong on this Len Dawg . I thought you were somehow related to John's finacee Sarah ?
Chomp did and is doing the right thing and Darren is doing the right thing Sadly what John did has caused a great deal of hurt feelings and possibly dameged if not ended some freind ships. Many that began hear on VFFT.
That being said I will make my coments in a thoughtful and concise post once the Truth about Team Shrepa thread is back up.

spencer
08-25-2005, 09:00 AM
Carmel,

it's "wild" not "whild"

I think you need Flash.

spencer

darren
08-25-2005, 09:05 AM
I removed the entire thread because it has been reduced to he is nice/ he is not nice posts.

I am going to build a new thread with just the posts from the main people invovled, namely Chomp, myself, and Sherpa John and then I am going to lock that thread.

I am locking this thread too because it is way off topic.

- darren