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darren
09-09-2005, 10:09 AM
Thanks to the help of Dr_wu, I found the option that allows people to see who sends them user rep points. The option was burried in a very obscure spot so I never knew it was there. Even with the instructions I had a hard time finding it.

SO.....if you hand out a red square the recipient will know it is from you. You should have a valid reason for handing out red squares. If you do not know the rules, then I suggest you read them (http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7378).

People can (and should) still hand out red squares if you feel that the post has bad information or does not belong on the site. With the exception of people crying about it, the user rep system has made the job of moderation much easier for peakbagr and myself. This form of citizen policing has helped to greatly reduce the number of off the wall posts that peakbagr and I have had to deal with in the past.

For the sake of clarity, I will make one more point again. The value of a green square depends on who gives it. It depends on how long they have been a member, how many posts they have, and what their user rep is. So far site members can give out +1, +2, +3, +4, or +5 points with each green square. However, a red square, no matter who gives it out is only -1 point. So if you have 5 green squares and you get 1 red square it is just about meaningless to your overall reputation. Only the real problem children who get much more red squares than green need to worry about getting red squares. OK??????

The whole system is based on feedback. If you get a red square, first of all realize that it does just about nothing to your overall user reputation. Then, calm down and try to figure out why you got it. Someone is telling you that they didn't like your post. Try to figure out why. If you have a real problem with the red square and you think that you didn't deserve it and that it was an abuse of the system, then email me or send me a private message. I will deal with it. Abuse of the user rep system will be dealt with harshly.

I will not allow any more posts complaining about red squares on this site. Please read that sentance again. I am serious.

- darren

Tom Rankin
09-09-2005, 11:37 AM
Do you know what happens to blue squares as someone 'ages'? Do they turn green or red? I seem to remember having 2 blues, but now I only have 1. Either that, or I just do not remember correctly.

twigeater
09-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Thank-you Darren.

just as I suspected....

sli74
09-09-2005, 11:42 AM
Do you know what happens to blue squares as someone 'ages'? Do they turn green or red? I seem to remember having 2 blues, but now I only have 1. Either that, or I just do not remember correctly.

They don't turn colors but you can only see a certain number of rep points (20 maybe) and the rest get "buried" and you can't see them anymore.

sli74

Tom Rankin
09-09-2005, 11:53 AM
They don't turn colors but you can only see a certain number of rep points (20 maybe) and the rest get "buried" and you can't see them anymore. sli74

Yes, that seems to be what is happening, thanks!

king tut
09-09-2005, 11:58 AM
thank you darren. I finally got to see who was behind all the random greenies and the one random red. and knowing is half the battle.

carole
09-09-2005, 11:59 AM
Hhhumm...very interesting indeed. This opens up the can of worms doesn't it!!

THANK YOU, DARREN :D

Tim Seaver
09-09-2005, 12:02 PM
SO.....if you hand out a red square the recipient will know it is from you. You should have a valid reason for handing out red squares.

I have a feeling there are a few givers-of-red that are more than a little embarrassed, now that the curtain has been ripped away.

Thanks for the tweak, Darren.

bobandgeri
09-09-2005, 12:09 PM
Best thing you have done!

Puck
09-09-2005, 12:24 PM
Yes it is a nice added feature. However, Mr. X is still an unknown.

Brownie
09-09-2005, 12:36 PM
As only a recent new member of this forum, I asked for the community to take it upon themselves to sign all reps, red or green.

This change will considerably help the Rep system in ways we don't yet completely know.
At the very least, we all stand to gain a respectable and valued system worthy of its intention.

BTW: I did not know I could rate a green square? Could I before?

Thank you Darren!

Brownie

PS: can of worms for you past "Ano-Redders" ! Your secrets shall remain status quo.

Chip
09-09-2005, 12:40 PM
:D HOORAY !!! Excellent news. The only thing worse than cyberspace is anonymity in cyberspace. :p

Mr. X
09-09-2005, 12:56 PM
I've delt out some green squares and some red squares in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. My suggestion to you is that you not take it personally either way. It is simply a button, I'm pretty cool with all of you either way.

twigeater
09-09-2005, 12:59 PM
My suggestion to you is that you not take it personally either way. It is simply a button...

In most cases that may be true...however, every single on of my red squares (that I can still see) was given to me by the same poser.

dr_wu002
09-09-2005, 12:59 PM
I have a feeling there are a few givers-of-red that are more than a little embarrassed, now that the curtain has been ripped away.

Thanks for the tweak, Darren.
Yes, I gave out my share of red squares too -- some unfairly as well. If anyone wants to contact me about it, feel free.

I would hope that now that the square identities are available that a Flame War doesn't start via. PM's. I'll answer any questions as to why I gave out a reddie or a greenie and apologize for unfair squares but I won't take part in any more of this ridiculous drama about squares.

-Dr. Wu

SAR-EMT40
09-09-2005, 01:21 PM
Thanks Darren. I had been curious about the two reds I received since neither was signed. Again, not mad, just curious.

I know that you can sort people by reputation. It would be neat if you could sort members by how many reds they give to other members. :D Just joking!

Keith

Neil
09-09-2005, 01:28 PM
OK.
Now, everbody! Give someone a green square, right now! :D

--M.
09-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Why just this morning, I was curious about my avatar, went to check its size, and found these curious & anonymous red & green squares on my reputation.

And now, six hours later, I see that they are anonymous no longer!

This site does continue to amuse & amaze.

The most beneficial thing that happened, I think, was the hike that I took between the two visits.

See ya.

Artex
09-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Yes, I gave out my share of red squares too -- some unfairly as well. If anyone wants to contact me about it, feel free.
-Dr. Wu

Likewise, though I felt all of mine were just, with the exception of a couple.

Thanks for implementing this feature, Darren!

darren
09-09-2005, 01:36 PM
In most cases that may be true...however, every single on of my red squares (that I can still see) was given to me by the same poser.


Twigeater, I am not picking you out of the pile. I am warning everyone on the board. NO posts complaining about red squares. If you have an issue send me an email or a PM.

NO more warnings. I am saying this warning for the last time and I am serious on this issue. Offenders will be banned even if your complaint is valid.

I am so sick of the sense of entitlement that some people have displayed here lately.

- darren

twigeater
09-09-2005, 01:39 PM
Go ahead and ban me then - if harrassment is allowed on this board - and encouraged apparently - I want no part of it.

Actually, I think I'll ban myself.
:eek:

darren
09-09-2005, 01:45 PM
This is exactly what I am talking about. I requested several times that people email me. How friggin hard is it to email me?

OK, twigeater is banned. Anyone else?

- darren

edit: just to be clear, harrassment is not allowed on this board and is certainly not encouraged. I will handle valid complaints of abuse that are sent to me via email.

percious
09-09-2005, 02:17 PM
I think it is a great idea to have accountability for reputation. I have been adding my -percious to any reputation thing I comment on, and I have seen others follow suit. I want people to know that I approve, partially in the hopes that they will return the favor. I think if we all work at it, we can make all of this a positive experience.

-percious

dave.m
09-09-2005, 02:18 PM
NO more warnings. I am saying this warning for the last time and I am serious on this issue. Offenders will be banned even if your complaint is valid.

A suggestion... Since you clearly feel strongly about this new policy, it might be helpful for new-comers and for those folks who don't read the Feedback forum for the latest updates for you to add this advice to your already existing and very helpful rules on the feedback feature. Putting the policy statement there might be a more effective place for "last time" type of statement.



I am so sick of the sense of entitlement that some people have displayed here lately.


And understandably so.

Speaking as a long time reader, the constant mellodrama in the background definitely detracts from the very sense of focus that VFTT strives for. I can definitely understand your sense of frustration.

Just an observation.... I suspect that many users come to this forum with their expectations formed by their experience with commercial or quasi-commercial forums. By and large, I think those forums have looser moderation goals, provide many features and services for free (supplemented by sponsors and advertisers) and moderators who recieve some sort of compensation. To put a positive spin on the situation, you might consider the "entitlement" disconnects as evidence of just how unique of an environment you've created here. Because of your vision and efforts, VFTT is very different from other forums. Different enough that some folks might need more help understanding that the rules here are not the same.

I applaud your efforts to make the forums more self-moderating. Removing the anonymity of the user reps is definitely a step in the right direction. So is the posting of the user rep rules. My only suggestion beyond this would be to direct your energies into further modification and refinement of the site rules and user rep rules. Posting your guidance in the context of threads, while helpful at the moment, is almost guaranteed to be lost over time, needlessly forcing you to repeat yourself.

In the hopes this is helpful,

darren
09-09-2005, 02:25 PM
Posting your guidance in the context of threads, while helpful at the moment, is almost guaranteed to be lost over time, needlessly forcing you to repeat yourself.

In the hopes this is helpful,


You are right. I just needed to post it here because of the potential for a big flame war that could develop in this thread. I will add the "no post" rule to the list of user rep rules.

Thanks

- darren

Mr. X
09-09-2005, 02:57 PM
Best thing you have done!

Well, maybe 2nd best. The 1st best was the creation of this site to begin with! :)

anita514
09-09-2005, 03:08 PM
great idea
hopefully this will make people think twice before dinging others unnecessarily AND will reduce some of the drama that's been going around.

Brownie
09-09-2005, 03:26 PM
Hey, I always noticed that under your Avitar, each person has a green square or two, but as of yesterday I see 3.
What is the count indicate?
Meanwhile, when you scroll over tag you get:
"so and so is OK so far"
or,
"so and so will become famous soon enough"

Darren, you and Wu got 3 greens!
When the heck do you eventually become FAMOUS?
Hopefully not when your six feet under....that would be "Legend"

Your famous already......... :D


"every one wants to be naked and famous"
Presidents of America

dr_wu002
09-09-2005, 03:30 PM
When the heck do you eventually become FAMOUS?
Hopefully not when your six feet under....that would be "Legend"

Presidents of America

<10 pts = Unknown Quantity at this Point
10 pts = OK so far
50 pts = Almost Famous
100 pts = 2 green squares
200 pts = 3 green squares
etc.

That's what my take on it is...

-Dr. Wu

Double Bow
09-09-2005, 03:37 PM
I'll answer any questions as to why I gave out a reddie or a greenie and apologize for unfair squares but I won't take part in any more of this ridiculous drama about squares.

Ayuh, ditto hea'!

post'r boy
09-09-2005, 04:54 PM
i stand by any color square i doled out!!!
:D :D :D :D :D
p.s. i just want to take this time to thank all of you who gave me green squares...
to all who gave me red squares... the feelin' is mutual!!! :p

jessbee
09-09-2005, 05:32 PM
Darren, your patience amazes me. I am pretty new here but the ridiculous drama that unfolds on a daily basis tops the nonsense I have to deal with in a classroom full of 30 teenagers in an urban high school. It is sad to think that a forum full of like-minded adults could be so petty and have so much trouble following directions.

Accountability is important, and I think it's a great idea to be accountable for giving out red or green squares.

If you've got something inflammatory to say then post it somewhere else! Just follow the rules, folks, and if you don't like them then scram.

Can't we focus on what we all love doing...hiking end enjoying the outdoors? Who's up for some hikes during all the holidays next month? (PM me :))

RGF1
09-09-2005, 07:16 PM
I have a thought that red squares will diminsh greatly and this will eliminate
some flame wars . If you are going to give red square now you have to be accountable and own it . Not a bad thing and it will help us openly disscus things that might get annonymous red square . I like the idea a alot . I feel much more able to express my thought with out some cowardly person flaming me . A good thing for the whole forum !

McRat
09-09-2005, 07:26 PM
I like the new policy. I hope it saves everyone a lot of hassle. Given how excited everyone got over anonymous negative comments, this could be a great step in the right direction.

At the risk of getting lost in metaphor - this board is like an orchard. Darren planted it, watered it, and even pruned it when necessary. We have all been invited to contibute and partake of the fruit. Sure there are a few bad apples, and a few that taste different than you might like, but there's a lot of good ones out there.

None-the-less, it's a great place. But if the owner has to toil extra hours and has nothing but bitter apples to show for it... well - he might just think it's a lot less work to cut down the trees, get his apples elsewhere, and go out hiking instead. I'd certainly be tempted.

Things have been tense enough lately, so let's let Darren do his job, and if you don't like it, find another orchard, or start your own.

How do you like them apples? ;)

MichaelJ
09-09-2005, 08:23 PM
I have been adding my -percious to any reputation thing I comment on, and I have seen others follow suit.

I have tried to remember that as well with squares I have given out, and I hope that now that I don't have to explicitly do that, nobody thinks that my lack of signing them anymore means anything other than I'm lazy. :)

funkyfreddy
09-09-2005, 08:47 PM
This is an interesting development! I just came home from a recording session and saw this .....now I know who

1. my secret admirers are....
2. doesn't appreciate my sense of humor....
3. who red squared me for Born To Be Wild ....
4. who to put on my ignore list........

and I'm plotting my revenge........... not! :D :eek: :p

On a more serious note, this is all pretty silly and petty stuff compared with all that's going on in the world today......

una_dogger
09-09-2005, 10:18 PM
Democracy in action, very cool indeed.

Toe Cozy
09-09-2005, 11:32 PM
I just finished packing for a spontaneous ~18 mile section hike on the LT tomorrow and Sunday with my husband who never had any interest in backpacking. It was his idea. I'm not kidding. How'd this happen? Is this heaven?

(just wanted to change the subject. I'm so bored of "square" talk.) :p

beverly
09-10-2005, 12:18 AM
Hey, I always noticed that under your Avitar, each person has a green square or two, but as of yesterday I see 3.
What is the count indicate?
Meanwhile, when you scroll over tag you get:
"so and so is OK so far"
or,
"so and so will become famous soon enough"

Darren, you and Wu got 3 greens!
When the heck do you eventually become FAMOUS?
Hopefully not when your six feet under....that would be "Legend"

Your famous already......... :D



You already are famous - ........Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job! :D

BrentD22
09-10-2005, 01:54 AM
Is it possible for me to find out whom I've given out either square to? It would be nice to talk about why I felt a red square was nessasary with out the worry of being ding'd as pay back with out knowing whom did it.

Also to the person with a member name starting with C... I forgive you.

RGF1
09-10-2005, 09:28 AM
Sorry If I am semi hijacking the thread but what if you accidently give a red square and ment to give a green one. i did this twice and I do not know how to change it . I want to give that person a green square. Or do I have to give out rep to 4 people frist then give them a new green square?

dr_wu002
09-10-2005, 09:37 AM
Sorry If I am semi hijacking the thread but what if you accidently give a red square and ment to give a green one. i did this twice and I do not know how to change it . I want to give that person a green square. Or do I have to give out rep to 4 people frist then give them a new green square?
Contact the person and tell them that you screwed up. Like Darren said, the Reddie is only worth -1. Give them a greenie whenever you get the chance. Probably better than bugging Darren to fix it for you. I'm sure everything will be OK.

-Dr. Wu

Cath
09-10-2005, 09:41 AM
I still belong to the category of folks who cannot send squares........i.e.
haven't made enough posts yet.

I've received 2 Greenies to date (Thanx Frodo & Kevin ;o) and two of the Reds. So, when I noticed this thread, I decided to go look at my User CP to see who bequeathed me with the crimson blocks, and found that one is no longer attached to me ? The one remaining was from my friend who is always in need of a Quarter, but the other unsigned & with no comment is now gone. Did this new development send folks scrambling to withdraw the squares they had previously given? Is that possible? Can we delete all / some of our posts, and that will "clean up" the squares that have been passed on? I looked up the Members List & did a look see at the correlation of # of posts now recorded next to members listed & it has indeed changed from what it was prior to this new policy.

darren
09-10-2005, 10:26 AM
Some people have left the site over the last few days. When they left they deleted all of their posts. They also delted all of the threads that they started. If they delete a thread that they started then all of the posts in that thread are deleted. All of the user reps associated with those posts are deleted too. I lost 20-30 user reps over the last few days.

- darren

Peakbagr
09-10-2005, 12:05 PM
I have given out some red squares where I was fumblefingered and hit the send before I could sign them. I've also done the same thing to Darren and others with green squares.
Now I don't need to be concerned with typing in haste, or signing my name.

To react to someone's post - With the amount of PMs, email, and Board time, please don't message me as to why you rec'd a square from me, green or red.
Sending legitimate concerns about TRUE ABUSE of reputation is always welcome.

Thanks,

PB

BrentD22
09-10-2005, 03:15 PM
Is there a way to show how I can see who I gave squares to?

Tim Seaver
09-10-2005, 06:43 PM
Cath - Did this new development send folks scrambling to withdraw the squares they had previously given? Is that possible?

It's kind of curious ( as well as altogether silly)- a red square and comment which was visible on my CP yesterday is no longer there, despite the fact that they neither started the thread nor left the board in disgrace.

Divine intervention? Disappearing ink?

"Out, damned spot! out, I say!" - Lady Macbeth :D

Peakbagr
09-10-2005, 07:28 PM
Depends on your definition of "devine".

If the person who left you reputation, green or red, asked for his account to be withdrawn, if they deleted posts, or if they provoked a permanent banning, then the reps they "awarded" disappear with their thread or presence.

darren
09-10-2005, 08:11 PM
It seems that some people just can not avoid the thin ice.

This thread is closed.

- darren