Opinion on what made these scratches?

On Poison Ivy's 81st up Sandwich Dome last Saturday she saw several trees that had been ripped up pretty badly. We both took pictures.

I have my opinion on what animal caused these scratches, what do you think?

Scrape went as high up as 6-7 feet up these trees and down near the bottoms.

Ummm......deer! yea that's it deer!

Sir Hikesalot said:

Black bear!

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Maybe, but the tree I saw the weekend before on Tecumseh had vertical scratches, reaching 7 feet up the tree and stopping about 2 feet from the ground. These scratches almost went horizontal. Still could be a black bear, I'm no expert.

My guess is a moose, stripping the bark off to eat it. I have seen similar in the Willey range before.

-percious

I would say moose.

"Moose also leave their marks, scraping bark off trees with their lower teeth and rubbing their antlers against trees to remove the antler velvet."

Bear biologist Lynn Rogers has a great site that shows good photos of various bear sign.

http://www.bear.org/Black/Sign/Bear_Sign.html

This guy knows his stuff.

I am learning my stuff, but I'd bet good money on a porcupine.
http://www.bearcamptrackers.org/050109d.html

percious said:

My guess is a moose, stripping the bark off to eat it. I have seen similar in the Willey range before.

-percious

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It could be, there were about 5 trees that were stripped like this, they were either spruce or fir. My guess was the moose was scraping the velvet off it's antlers?

Lack of scale in the photo makes guessing more difficult, but it appears -- by their breadth and orientation -- that the marks are more like those made by teeth than claws. Not being familiar with the particular area in terms of elevation, terrain, forest cover, etc., my first guess would be porcupine.

G.

el-bagr said:

Bear biologist Lynn Rogers has a great site that shows good photos of various bear sign.

http://www.bear.org/Black/Sign/Bear_Sign.html

This guy knows his stuff.

I am learning my stuff, but I'd bet good money on a porcupine.
http://www.bearcamptrackers.org/050109d.html

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Quote Grumpy.

Lack of scale in the photo makes guessing more difficult, but it appears -- by their breadth and orientation -- that the marks are more like those made by teeth than claws. Not being familiar with the particular area in terms of elevation, terrain, forest cover, etc., my first guess would be porcupine.

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This was a busy porcupine! There were 5 trees stripped like this, all on one side. Elevation was around 3K. Poison Ivy has a photo on her album also that might show better scale:
here Photo is down in the fourth row of her album.

I think it was definetly a moose. Bears claw at trees but they dont leave gashes usually that wide or as big of an area. I would say the bull moose stripped the back with his teeth then worked on his antlers. Have seen this a few times, with fish and game. -Matt L

What other sort of animal "sign" did you find around these trees? Tracks? Droppings?

G.

I would say that it is Moose. The scale makes it a little hard to tell but the description and the incisor scrapes make me believe that it is moose. Distant second would be porcupine. Almost certainly not a bear. IMHO. And checking for scat and other evidence would help with the identity.

Keith

Grumpy said:

What other sort of animal "sign" did you find around these trees? Tracks? Droppings?

G.

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There was fresh fallen snow but the only tracks appeared to be small animals like rabbits and one other. I saw no moose tracks or droppings in the area. Ivy also had a picture of some tracks but they were taken before we reached this area. They didn't look like porcupine

"That rabbit is dynamite"

Does not look like bear claw marks I have seen. Do Porcupines climb up 5-6 feet to feed on trees?

SAR-EMT40 said:

I would say that it is Moose. The scale makes it a little hard to tell but the description and the incisor scrapes make me believe that it is moose. Distant second would be porcupine. Almost certainly not a bear. IMHO. And checking for scat and other evidence would help with the identity.

Keith

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I read somewhere that Moose don't have top teeth, so the bite marks would have to be from the lower jaw, some marks were 7 feet up but moose are pretty big. I'd love to see a picture of how a moose eats bark.

Don’t want to be argumentative or seem obstinate, but some limited Google-ing has indicated the moose’s fancy for tree bark is confined to deciduous species, while the porcupine decidedly has a taste for conifers. So . . ..

I’ve seen rabbits do some powerful gnawing, too, but not that high on the tree without supernatural powers. Has Pin-Pin migrated from the Adirondacks to the Whites?

So, what’s Jim L’s best guess as to whodunnit?

G.

Grumpy said:

Don’t want to be argumentative or seem obstinate, but some limited Google-ing has indicated the moose’s fancy for tree bark is confined to deciduous species, while the porcupine decidedly has a taste for conifers. So . . ..

I’ve seen rabbits do some powerful gnawing, too, but not that high on the tree without supernatural powers. Has Pin-Pin migrated from the Adirondacks to the Whites?

So, what’s Jim L’s best guess as to whodunnit?

G.

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I'm no expert. I've seen deer rubbings on small trees but never a moose rubbing. These trees weren't saplings and those marks do look like bite marks. I'm thinking a moose's antlers are more smooth and the rubbing would be more smooth and less gouging. I'm swinging over to the porcupine's side.

Definately Moose

While climbing No. Brother in early October I saw dozens of trees with similar markings. Only hardwood trees had the markings all the conifers were "clean". I left the trail to get a closer look at the trees and startled a rather large female moose who was getting a early morning snack.

I too, think it's porcupine. I've SEEN them in trees eating its bark. Nearby Gatineau Park is FULL of trees that look like that from ole Porky. Usually, it is about 20 feet up.

Jim lombard said:

I read somewhere that Moose don't have top teeth, so the bite marks would have to be from the lower jaw, some marks were 7 feet up but moose are pretty big. I'd love to see a picture of how a moose eats bark.

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Very interesting. I shouldn't have said distant second. Originally I was going to say that if someone told me they saw what did it and it was a porcupine I certainly wouldn't call him a liar. I should have stated that. I am pretty sure we agree that bear is out. I have a picture of a porcupine high out on a limb in Paul Rezendes' excellant book "Tracking and the art of seeing" on page 69. They are excellant climbers. If the teeth thing about moose is correct that is interesting JL. I didn't know that. Also I agree about the saplings. This doesn't appear like the saplings that moose usually rub.

According to Rezendes' porcupines will feed on both hard and softwood. Also according to Rezendes moose rubs can be up to 90 inches high.

I think I am convincing myself that it may be a porcupine.

Keith