The Big Giardia Question

Considering all the posted warnings in the Whites regarding drinking untreated water, what is the consensus regarding the actual water quality for the streams flowing through the mountains? Are that many hikers known to have contracted giardia or other maladies from drinking staight from mountain brooks?

I know at least two people who got giardia while hiking in the Whites. It's hard to be sure if they got it from drinking untreated water or from bad hygene, but either way, treating you water makes sense. There are certainly critters in the headwaters of many mountain streams that have giardia. Personally, having talked with and seen the results of giardia, I'm not willing to take the risk.

-dave-

Victim

I had a very mild bout with Giardia. I can say first hand that it's no fun. I was umm lets just say I lost a lot of wieght in a month, then gained back very quickly

I can say with almost 100% confidence that I got it while backpacking.


Although I do have to admit that I did not practice very safe water drinking habits while hiking. At times I still don't (live life on the edge).

David Metsky said:

Personally, having talked with and seen the results of giardia,

-dave-

Click to expand...

huh????? what language is that??
i've had it 3 times,all in other countries. it aint that bad.
i think the filter stuff is way over rated,pick your source with some sense of awareness,and you'd be fine. the filter thing was pushed hard into the hikin' comunity back in the early 90's if i'm not mistakin'.

I have met several people who have gotten giardia in the whites. The unofficial policy that a lot of backcountry workers seem to use is not to drink from any source where there is a possibility that someone has camped uphill. Generally that would mean near treeline. One of my friends most likely got it from a real artesian spring (Potawago?)in the 100 mile wilderness.

The Berlin NH water supply which was a surface water system, was shut down many years ago due to persistent giardia issues. Their water supply was the east side of the Kilkennys where there is much lower density use than most of the whites. (they installed a new filter plant a few years ago and now are using the surface water supply again).

I'll admit to being a filter-user at nearly all times. There have been a handful of times where I've taken water straight from a spring w/o a filter, but it's rare. I haven't been sick yet, but I don't know if it is from careful hygeine and filtering habits or b/c it just really isn't as big a threat as it's made out to be.

Giardia can come from any warm blooded animal, including humans, and based on the amount of people hiking in the Whites, I always filter my water. There is no way to tell if there is Giardia in the water or not by visual inspection, and the disinfection chemicals are just too ineffective to work by themselves in cold water temperatures. Testing for Giardia is very expensive and takes some time, so it's not feasible to check all the water sources for it.

Sure, people can get lucky, the Giardia may not be present, you could be more immune to it than others, and there may not be enough to fully infect someone. However, I'd rather not take my chances, so I'll filter. In the winter I use a fiber filter, like the Katadyn Hiker or Guide (I need a new filter for my Guide though), and in the summer I use the WaterWorks EX (I don't want the filter element to crack in the winter), both with disinfection chemicals.

i actually own a filter and have yet to use it. i drink da water in da whites all the time. i'm just careful to make sure there's no campin' area above where i'm drinkin'--or a hut!! just drink up high. you'll be fine.

(i used to drink tap water in india as well).

I never filter water in the Adirondacks. After I get my first Giardia infection then I will start filtering.

JK.

I usually carry and use a filter but if I'm on a remote bushwhack like the Sawtooths I drink straight out of the stream. I wouldn't recommend this on the other side of the street ie. the Sewards. In some cases I'll carry no water or filter in my pack (but have an empty bladder in case I will be away from the source-then I take on about a quart). I've heard tales of dead animals in the water but I've also heard tales of more Giardia spores found in LA's water supply than in unfiltered water in the Sierras. Obviously filtering (assuming properly cared-for filter) pretty well ensures you won't come down with anything and I would never discourage someone from useing one.
I'm just sharing what I do.

Here is an Interesting thread on the same subject.

I feel the point Lawn Sale makes is the one most folks overlook when deciding to drink unfiltered water.
Its pretty obvious that you shouldn't drink the water near trails and campsites. But deer, moose, mice, 'coons, porky's and all sorts of other mammals drink water containing giardia. Some of these animals can roam a long way, and when they leave their waste in water far from suspected-sites, those giardia spores are floating around in water that looks quite safe.

I remember stopping at a gas station in Bartlett to fill our bottles and seeing a sign that said the water wasn't potable. I asked the attendant if he knew what was wrong with the water and he said "Giardia". That was around '95 and according to him the entire towns public water supply was contaiminated with it. There are estimates that upwards of 80% of the population are carriers. Most suffer no ill effects. The first microbe every viewed was a giardia cyst in von Leeuwenhoek's own stool.

I always filter and/or boil my water and am very careful about cross contamination to my items from the untreated parts of the filter. I always flush the "dirty" filter components with treated water. But, thats just me.

I have seen the effects that Giardia has on some people. I don't need to be that sick if I can avoid it.

Keith

SAR-EMT40 said:

The first microbe every viewed was a giardia cyst in von Leeuwenhoek's own stool.

Click to expand...

That's a fantastic tidbit! Thanks.

BTW It would be good to know if one was a carrier. For one, it would make you a LOT more careful about hygeine and sewage disposal. Secondly, (but I don't know this for sure) you wouldn't have to worry about getting sick.

I don't drink the water wild

I've had giardiasis and its no fun.
I filter and or use iodine, depending on water quality (visual).
In some cases I've boiled and then iodined water (once its cooled overnight in my nalgene) if its got alot of color/sediment; and I don't want to burn out my filter.
While on the LT a few summers back during a very dry august, the only water to be found was really full of sediment. I began using one nalgene as my "settler" bottle and I'd fill it in camp, let the sediment settle, then carefully decant it and boil it and transfer it to my "been boiled" nalgene.

Further FYI:
I've known some folks with traildogs who've gotten giardiasis. There is a vaccine for dogs which doesn't protect them from reinfection but does prevent them from being carriers.

Happy Trails,
Sabrina

I drink unfiltered water quite a bit in the woods, mostly at higher elevations. My decisions are based on each situation including what's above me in the watershed. I am most worried about dirty humans and human waste than animal scat contamination. No worries at all from drinking water from any spring, especially at higher elevations. Remote streams away from high uses areas and watersheds make me think twice, but i will usually just drink straight from the water. The choice to pack my filter depends on where i am going and who i am traveling with.

There's alot to read on the subject. I found this really interesting. Seems like humans once lived in ignorance with gardia and it only became a problem as we cleaned the water and lost our immunity to it!?!?!

One thing in the above article that really made me think was the point about how it is far more likely to contract giardia from your friends' bad hygene than the water. Think about that next time someone grabs a handful of your trail mix or you eat somone elses

I have heard by medical folks that your more likely to get it from the place you eat on the way home than any water in the MTS. who knows tho

How about in Winter?

I would think that the chance of getting Giardia in winter is much much smaller...Do those of you who always filter in summer also filter in winter?

How about melting snow, surely no one bothers to get that up to a boil do they?

(I filter or boil in summer except from a spring in the whites, don't bother in Sierras, don't filter or boil when there's snow on the ground)

Bluethroatedone said:

I would think that the chance of getting Giardia in winter is much much smaller...Do those of you who always filter in summer also filter in winter?

How about melting snow, surely no one bothers to get that up to a boil do they?

Click to expand...

Here you go:http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4209&highlight=giardia

Bluethroatedone said:

How about melting snow, surely no one bothers to get that up to a boil do they?

Click to expand...

Only when it is yellow, pink, or brown.

I've posted this before, but this is an excellent Q & A from MSR on filtration and purification.

"Virtually all surface waters are microbiologically contaminated. There are three types of disease-causing microorganisms: protozoa, bacteria, and viruses. A 1992 study found that 97% of U.S. rivers and lakes contain one or both of the protozoan parasites giardia and cryptosporidia."

I never used to filter around here or in the Adirondacks, until the weekend we discovered and removed the body of a large, partially decomposed porcupine about 200' up stream from where we had been filling our water bottles.

Interesting article, Starchild...it makes giardia seem less problematic. But it also highlights the fact that giardia isn't the only bug possibly swimming around in that clear mountain water:

"other possible offenders are Campylobacter, Cryptosporidium, Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Aeromonas, Clostridium, and Escherichia coli, with the last being the most common cause of traveler’s diarrhea worldwide"

In the summer, I filter compulsively. Its easy...why not? In the winter I melt snow, and I don't count how many (if any) minutes it boils, because I'm usually too cold to care.