Stabilzers vs Crampons for above treeline

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Jkrew81

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So I made a trip up Washington yesterday on Lions head. Could not reach the summit as I only got to the top of Lions Head by my turnaround time and the weather was not to great. In typical Washington style the winds were high creating at least 5 foot snow drifts while other setions of rock were bare. Does anyone here switch over to Stablizers in these conditions where the full might of crampons are not really needed? I feel as though moving might be alittle bit faster and maybe even safer on uneven rocky terrain.

FYI... the only reason I just thought of this is due to the fact that I replaced my broken Yak Trax with the more expensive Stabilicer version and I am incredibly impressed by them but did not bring them along on this trip as they are rather heavy.
 
Megunticook was this way last weekend during the traverse across the top, and I just left the crampons on and tried to stay off the bare rocks as much as possible.

I hear you on the weight, my crampons weigh 30.5 ounces and the full stabilicers weigh 28.3 ounces. I did manage to find some reinforced nylon 1/2 boot ones for spring hiking that weigh 4.9 ounces, but I have no idea as to how they'll hold up. I walked around the parking lot with them and they seemed OK, but the real world is different.
 
Before heading out on the M-M trail yesterday, I installed 7 screws in each boot--4 in the front and 3 in the back. They were mildly helpful. After the hike I went to EMS to use a gift card to purchase Stableicers. Basically, they were the same as the screws I had used so I decided against the purchase. My personal experience/opinion is that Yaktrax and Stableicers have their place but are not to be relied upon while hiking in the Whites at this time of year......

What I plan to do is make sure the screws in my boots will allow for a proper fit of my 6- and 10-point crampons (total weight of the screws is negligible)...I negelected to plan for this when I first installed the screws...live and learn...
...Jade
 
jade said:
Before heading out on the M-M trail yesterday, I installed 7 screws in each boot--4 in the front and 3 in the back. They were mildly helpful. After the hike I went to EMS to use a gift card to purchase Stableicers. Basically, they were the same as the screws I had used so I decided against the purchase. My personal experience/opinion is that Yaktrax and Stableicers have their place but are not to be relied upon while hiking in the Whites at this time of year......

What I plan to do is make sure the screws in my boots will allow for a proper fit of my 6- and 10-point crampons (total weight of the screws is negligible)...I negelected to plan for this when I first installed the screws...live and learn...
...Jade
Once upon a time (up til the 1930s), nailed boots used to be standard winter equipment....

Doug
 
Haha

DougPaul said:
Once upon a time (up til the 1930s), nailed boots used to be standard winter equipment....

Doug


haha, Very true
 
I prefer Yaks to Crampons in all but the iciest conditions and have probably done a dozen winter hikes up Washington without ever putting the crampons on. The exception is one of those days when the slopes below the summit cone are hard ice.

Downside to Yaks is they'll only last about a year if you do a good deal of winter hiking, plus they love to twist off my boots so I usually wind up readjusting them 2-3 times a hike which is a pain in the ass if your hands are frozen.

Maybe I should try these Stabilicer things - do they mess up your shoes in any permanent way, or is it just some sort of attachment to your sole?
 
jethro said:
I prefer Yaks to Crampons in all but the iciest conditions and have probably done a dozen winter hikes up Washington without ever putting the crampons on. The exception is one of those days when the slopes below the summit cone are hard ice.

Downside to Yaks is they'll only last about a year if you do a good deal of winter hiking, plus they love to twist off my boots so I usually wind up readjusting them 2-3 times a hike which is a pain in the ass if your hands are frozen.

Maybe I should try these Stabilicer things - do they mess up your shoes in any permanent way, or is it just some sort of attachment to your sole?

The ones I have are just stretchy rubber things that stretch over your boots. The metal portion is the head of a screw that sticks out about 3-4 mm. It can actually be removed and replaced quite easily. They're not a whole lot of traction for a steep place, or snow, as they do not have sharp points. Mine has 9 screws in each foot. They weigh 7 oz. each.

Crampons are definitely better for what they are made for, but overkill at other times.

I almost never bring both. I usually bring crampons and snow shoesf ro full winter hiking, or if it's earlier in the year, just the stabilizers.
 
Screwboots and Kahtoolas

Jade:
What I plan to do is make sure the screws in my boots will allow for a proper fit of my 6- and 10-point crampons (total weight of the screws is negligible)...I negelected to plan for this when I first installed the screws...live and learn...

Aha! A screwboot convert. A rarity these days :)

screwsxl.jpg


I've been using this setup for 90% of my winter hiking. 20 Kold Kutter ice racing screws per boot and Steel Kahtoolas with their anti-snow bots. The steel kahtoolas are a huge improvement over the original aluminum version, which would dull in about 30 seconds of contact with rocks. They are a little slower to put on than clip-ons, but are very secure once you have them on.
 
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jethro said:
I prefer Yaks to Crampons in all but the iciest conditions and have probably done a dozen winter hikes up Washington without ever putting the crampons on. The exception is one of those days when the slopes below the summit cone are hard ice.

Downside to Yaks is they'll only last about a year if you do a good deal of winter hiking, plus they love to twist off my boots so I usually wind up readjusting them 2-3 times a hike which is a pain in the ass if your hands are frozen.

Maybe I should try these Stabilicer things - do they mess up your shoes in any permanent way, or is it just some sort of attachment to your sole?

I have the ones that have velcro straps that secure to your boots and so far I have zero complaints with them besides their weight (although their weight it probably what makes them sturdier than Yaks).

I think I am going to start bringing both weight be damned. Obviously to climb most of the headwalls crampons are vital, but up top I think having the option is smart.
 
Sorry, one vote for Crampons. next time I have to scrap ice off my driveway I'll wish I had Yaks.

Granted crampons back on 11/19 were almost as treacherous on Lion's Head as being without but cover is increasing not decreasing.

Perfect conditions: Staying warm in the house watching the Patriots. Then I'd only fear my next physical 20 pounds heavier + 20 HDL + 20 LDL & a prescription for Lipitor
 
Tim, You screw those things right into the bottom of your boots??? (winter boots, I'm thinking?) Never heard of this so feel free to do a kindergarten explanation.
 
BorealChickadee said:
Tim, You screw those things right into the bottom of your boots??? (winter boots, I'm thinking?) Never heard of this so feel free to do a kindergarten explanation.

Yeah, I'd also like an explanation of this??? :confused: Never heard of it, but if it works, that would be great, since I don't own any crampons and don't plan on buying any, anytime too soon! I do have the stabilizers and love them for some icey conditions, but they don't work for all icey conditions, maybe the screws would be a cheaper way to go.
 
I am not Tim....but I can tell you what I did.....

First I grabbed a handful of fine thread drywall screws because they were the only 1" screws I had. I will soon purchase hex head screws because they are beefier and the top profile will better dig into ice and hard snow. I turned over both boots and with a magic marker located the placement of screws so the boots would have a mirror image setup. I removed the liner, and started each screw. I put my hand inside the boot where the screws were and (cordless) drilled away making sure none came through. I ended up with an approximate total of 1/4" of screw exposed. I then reinserted the liners knowing that I had some cushion if indeed the screws were to push through a bit. In my pack, I brought along extra screws and a small screwdriver.

One advantage of removeable cleats is that you can walk into a store/lodge without removing your boots!

Though these screws cannot compare to full crampons, they really work--I had no problem whatsoever.......

I do think Tim's set up is an excellent one--all the screws are lined up to accommodate his crampons....next time I will attach the crampons prior to magic-marking placement of the screws......

So who will be the first to begin a post 'I have a screw loose!'???
...Jade
 
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boot screws

Tim--
I've used stainless steel hex head slotted sheet metal screws in a pattern like your picture, screwed into Vibram-soled Asolos. Alas, they fell out after a couple of days of winter AT section hiking. Where did you get your Kold Kutter screws? Do they stay in day to day?
Walt
 
whcobbs,

You can get the screws at Magic Racing

The 3/8" length screws don't seem to hold well - I use the longest ones I can use without coming close enough to the insole to cause a pressure point. I have been using the 1/2" length in the forefoot and 5/8" in the heel.

I think that some types of soles may not hold the screws as well as others, with the harder rubber compounds seeming to lose more screws.

BorealChickadee and Klutz,

Yes, you pretty much just screw them directly in - it's pretty easy if you use a socket that you can use with a screw gun or power drill. Sink the screws right into the middle of the thickest part of each lug, and stay at least 1/2" from the edge of the boot so you don't shred your gaiters/pants.

The final piece of the puzzle is trying to use the screwboots with snowshoes.

The screws would obviously shred your decking, so you need a protective layer between the screws and your decking. I use a piece of dense 1/2" foam from some leftover rubber floor tiles that I had around - I trace two pieces in the shape of my boots, but about 1/2" bigger all around to allow for some misalignment when putting the snowshoes on, then affix this boot shaped piece of foam to the snowshoe. How you attach them is going to vary depending on your binding - I drilled some small holes though the center of the rivets holding the binding to the cross-piece and ran a piece of copper wire through these holes and through a few holes poked into the foam. This could use some refinement, as the copper wire breaks after a few hikes. A few bonuses from this setup are a much warmer feet due to less conduction through your boot sole ( a major heat loss area), and a mild "shock-absorber" effect. The screws do trash the foam eventually - I have been getting about 20 miles per pad.

I'll try to post a picture of a snowshoe with the pad tomorrow.
 
Tim, I've known you are a Kahtoola user from earlier posts, and I've had a pair for a couple years.

I love how versatile these flexible crampons are, you can put them on running shoes, boots, etc., and they're a good choice when you don't need a more rigid, aggressive crampon (I have a pair of Grivels for that situation). However I have an aluminum pair and they have definitely gotten worn down. I didn't realize they seem to have switched to steel to remedy this. I may try to sharpen the points but that will be a shortlived solution, may have to spring for a new pair.
 
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