Chic-Chocs Avalanche warning!

I'm heading up to this area next week (The Gaspesie in Quebec)and thought I'd check out conditions..... Avalanche report
There is Extreme Avalanche risk for today in the area and continuing high for the next few days... Our group is probably going to have to rent beacons and necessary emergency gear.
Has anyone here experienced High Avalanche conditions? I have experience winter hiking and skiing in the Daks and Whites but Avalanche terrain is another thing.

I have read a good bit on avalanches, but have no formal training.

I make a point of avoiding avalanche terrain (or going below avalanche terrain) if there is any significant risk.

Some rules of thumb:
* Slopes of ~25-60 deg are most likely to avalanche (can go down to 15 deg if the snow is very wet.)
* Most natural avalanches happen during or within 24 hrs of heavy snow
* Snow rates of 1in/hr or greater are high avalanche hazard.
* If you get buried and dug out, your chance of survival isn't good: ~40% IIRC. The longer you are buried, the lower your chances. After an hour, the chance of survival is very low (~10% IIRC).
* A static analysis (rules of thumb above) is pretty easy, determining the current stability of at-risk snow is much harder.
* Most fatal avalanches are started by the victim or the victim's party.
* If there is enough room between the trees to ski, there is enough room for an avalanche

Ways to avoid being caught:
* stay off avalanche slopes
* don't go under them (avalanches can travel a good distance on lower angle or flat terrain below them)
* follow ridges

If you have avalanche beacons/shovels/probes
* You need all 3: beacons, probe, and shovels (1 of each per person)
* Learn how to search, both beacon and probe
* Practice
* Practice multiple burials
* Make sure you turn your beacons on before you start out (worthwhile for a leader to check everyone with his receiver)
* Carry enough batteries (alkalines generally preferred)
* Still be careful--see the above stat.

Note:
* Avalanche hazard prediction is an inexact science at best--even the experts get caught and killed

Refs:
David McClung, Peter Schaerer, Avalanche Handbook, 2nd ed

Ron Perla, Martinelli, Avalanche Handbook, USDA
Updated by McClung and Schaerer.

Ed LaChapelle, ABC of Avalanche Safety, 2nd ed.[?]

Tony Daffern, Avalanche Safety for Skiers and Climbers

There is also somewhat limited info in Freedom of the Hills.

There is a lot that I have missed or not attempted to include here. Get some of the references and start reading or take a course. Or just stay well away from harm's way.

Doug

Dougs' suggestions are all on point, but I would be concerned that your group can master all these skills in a week. Also remember that the current avy report may or may not be valid next week. Conditions can change hourly in some instances. Where are you going? If you are staying around Mt. Albert area, talk to the guides on duty at the visitors center for a general idea of conditions in the area. If your party is there to tour, it is easy to stay away from the well known slide prone areas. If you are there to make turns, then slide prone areas such as Hogs Back and Patrollers Bowl are exactly where you want to go! Consider hiring a guide for a few days. You don't have time to obtain the necessary expertise in a week, but you can purchase it.

If, on the other hand, you are travelling to a more remote part of the parc such as Mines Madeline, I would be very cautious as most of the bowls there can slide. Even if you are touring, I have seen a slide cross the switch back trail up to the top of the escarpment twice in the times I have been there.

Last option is Mt. Logan area. Lots of touring terrain but with the exception of Ouellette bowl, there is little avy danger within a mile of the cabins.

Thanks for all that info Doug! All good points.... particularly liked the one about Avalanches being able to run between trees wide enough to ski thru. Interesting.

DougPaul said:

Or just stay well away from harm's way.

Doug

Click to expand...

That is the plan! I have studied our route and it should be easy enough to stay out of the main Avalanche paths.

yardsale said:

Last option is Mt. Logan area. Lots of touring terrain but with the exception of Ouellette bowl, there is little avy danger within a mile of the cabins.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that info yardsale....This is the area where we will be. Would you know if it is possible to summit Mt. Logan without hitting that particular bowl?
We are staying at the "Chouette" and "Nyctale" huts in that vicinity.

Thanks again guys.... This is such a great site for important information.

It is easy to summit Logan from the huts from the avi perspective as you are on the top of thr ridge all the way. Ouellette Bowl is the obvious face of Logan, viewed from the cabins. The more likely issue you will have to contend with is the nasty weather (like Mt Washington) often on Logan. The summit is featurless and nearly flat, so be careful you don't get turned around in a whiteout. There are large red poles every 100' or so across the summit but these can become rime incrusted and useless. Other than that, have fun. It is a wonderful place--wish we were going with you!

Thanks ... I have just got hold of the accurate Topo map of the Park and yes, I see the toughest day looks like the first from the town of St.Octave up onto the plateau thru a steep valley to the Huard hut. The rest looks like a steady climb on to the plateau.
Will be careful to take lots of bearings should weather turn bad on Logan.

We start the trip this Thursday morning on that route. Can't Wait!!

Thanks again for that.

Read about windslab snow if you can... if when you ski or step on it it makes a thwoomp sound and/or fractures... i would be extremely weary of going any further on a slope greater than 25 degrees

Just a couple of pointers for rescue...

Look FOR SURFACE CLUES! ... is there anything on the surface that might give them away... tip of a glove sticking out.

A general victim rule is you must get to them by the end of 15 minutes... after that survival is 8-10 percent and those that did survive an hour seemed to because they had an air pocket around their head.

The fifteen minutes refers to death by asphyxiation.

Again as DougPaul has stated: If you rent beacons, familiarize yourself with the different types and Practice, Practice, Practice. Do you know how to conduct a search with one beacon and two or more barried signals? There are now two different technologies available regarding beacons, digital and analog... digital indicate a direction and intensity however transform the sound you hear. Analog transceivers are the true sound and intensity but only indicate the intensity of the signal when the beacon is in line with the signal. From a first hand users experience the analog is harder to use. Some experts have their reasons for using them, still. Familiarize yourself with both types. Are both available for rent? Also be sure to learn about how the signal is transmitted ... if you are 30 yards out you wont be walking a straight line to find the victim.

Good Luck to you.

Justin

Thanks again for the info. As it turned out we weren't too close to the avalanche slopes and the danger had dropped anyway.
It was an Awesome trip....


Pictures speak louder than words

Nice pics. Glad to see someone east of the Rockiesis getting some snow this winter

Bobcat said:

Nice pics. Glad to see someone east of the Rockiesis getting some snow this winter

Click to expand...

It snowed every day while the sun shone and our tracks were blown in within a couple of hours.

stop it, stop it, I can't take it anymore.

your pictures make me want to head there right now!

by the way, yesterday we got abut 4" of the fluffiest, lightest powder I've ever seen in the northeast. It really is incredible snow. Alas, I don't get to play in it until next week.

spencer

Nice pics. The biggest slide area was that slope of Logan facing the cabins. Called Ouellette bowl. Never skied it but often tempted. I am curious. Were you able to select the huts you wished to stay at or did you have to take "the Package tour, one night at Huard, two at Nictale or Chouette, and one at Carouge?

Wow! This brings me back.

This year, I decided to head to the Mt Valins instead of the chic-chocs.

yardsale said:

Nice pics. The biggest slide area was that slope of Logan facing the cabins. Called Ouellette bowl. Never skied it but often tempted. I am curious. Were you able to select the huts you wished to stay at or did you have to take "the Package tour, one night at Huard, two at Nictale or Chouette, and one at Carouge?

Click to expand...

We had to take the package exactly how you mentioned,except we had one night at Chouette then moved the 100yds down the hill for the third night at Nyctale. There wasn't a choice. This way there is a constant "flow" of skiers in groups of eight.
Looking down that Ouellette bowl was kind of cool.... we stayed on the less steep snowfields to the south and east of Logan for our knee deep Teleskiing....unfortunately no pictures of that.