compass vs gps

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giggy

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Hikin' the scree on Shasta....
ok you electro geeks - I am old skool - but not that old - but old enough - but still young - :eek: :D

I have always relied on compass and/or map to get me in the right direction if off trail/loss trail, etc. and 9 times of out 10 - I just use my brain to get back on trail in the whites -

what is the advantage of the GPS over a map and compass - personally, I would be too scared to rely on one as electronic things die at the worst times and work great when you don't need them.


I am wondering for the 300 bucks - if there is a clear advantage - or is this just a rich guy toy :eek: :eek: :eek:

serious question tho
 
I've got a bottom of the line Garmin e-trex that is pretty fun to play around with. Since it doesn't have maps built into it, it's almost useless without a map and compass. However, used in conjunction with those it's pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to get lost, which is fun, especially in areas with ambiguous topography.

The other features are nice too, like speed, elevation, distance etc. The speed feature is really fun while canoeing :D . I can paddle solo 6 miles and hour! Yay for me!

Despite all of the nifty things it does, I almost never bring it. Marking waypoints and waiting for a signal is time consuming. My batteries always get low toward the end of a multi-day trip or I just stop using the thing. It's a fun gadget, but certainly not necessary, and probably overly-relied upon these days. :)
 
giggy said:
personally, I would be too scared to rely on one as electronic things die at the worst times and work great when you don't need them.

serious question tho

When I us my GPS, I always have a map and compass for backup. I always have at least one backup for my navigation when I hike. I learned this from experience because I've had both GPS and compass fail me in the field. I've had batteries die and I own at least two compasses that no longer point to magnetic north.
 
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I have found my Garmin E-Trex Legend to be both useful and a disappointment.

There was 1 situation where I came out at 4am after camping in the woods 200-ish feet away from my car & the trail, headed towards the trail in the wrong direction, but used GPS to get me back. Same thing when I was coming off of bagging a Catskills 4k'er, another hiker & I took the wrong trail back to our cars, but GPS guided us back to the trailhead.

It's very useful for marking waypoints, that way you always have a reference point.

As other people will undoubtably point out, no gadget is infallible, but mine has held up pretty well. It seems fairly ruggedized.

I would disagree on the battery life issue- if you leave it turned on all the time, then they don't last long. But most of the time I just use mine to get a fix (usually 2-4 minutes- a downside), then turn it off. Using it in that way, I'm guesstimating that I only replace the batteries once every 6? 8? 10? dayhikes.

Another drawback is that you have to have a pretty good view of the sky to get a good signal. In other words, in the woods in the 3-season, unless you're in a clearing, you're not going to get the 3 or more satellites you need to tell you where you're at.

One other thing- do get one w/ a color screen; battery life is longer than with the black & white screens. The reason why is newer design electronics which consume less juice.

Hope this helps!
 
I used map and compass for decades and always though gps was a tech toy, especially useless for hiking over trails. Then I got one just over a year ago. I took the thing on every hike I did since then. I took it jogging, played around with it, drove in the car etc.

My bottom line: for off-trail hikes where I want to get to a specific objective (one or more summits) and back to my car that same day the gps can't be beat. This holds true especially if I'm pushing the envelope.

Sometimes you could care less about exercising your M&C skills, studying the topography, figuring it all out...you just want to get there and back ASAP. That's when I like the gps.

Another use: following herd trails in the winter through open hardwoods. If I want to follow a herd trail but it's invisible then the gps tells me where I am relative to the trail.

The gps can take away from the fun, challenge and improvisation of navigating with M&C.

One really great thing is using it as a recording instrument and then seeing where you went when you get home.
 
I didn't really need orienteering tools yet, because most of my hiking is done on trails, near roads and towns, and I'm sooo affraid of getting lost that I usually take all precautions so it doesn't happen. So far, I have been able to locate myself and know where to go with my map only (sometimes the sun help to).

That said, I do carry a compass (two, actually), and I'm looking foward to use it more often.

Even if I had the money, I would not allow myself to buy a GPS before being totally comfortable with the compass and map. Otherwise I would feel stupid.

GPS is just another tool. It can help, but it could never garantee you a summit. And another tool is just more complications (batteries), you have to pay for it, and you have to learn all the features on it, so IMO, GPS means more worries, less money and less time to enjoy hiking.
 
Truth is, they're both useful. Lots of resistance to the GPS still, but that's human nature as it's a new tool. Remember all the heated threads re: "real hikers don't carry cell phones"? Well, you rarely see those anymore.

With a GPS always carry extra batteries. And always carry 2 compasses ...
 
Kevin Rooney said:
Lots of resistance to the GPS still, but that's human nature as it's a new tool.

You can't be more right ! :D
 
sleeping bear said:
I've got a bottom of the line Garmin e-trex that is pretty fun to play around with. Since it doesn't have maps built into it, it's almost useless without a map and compass. However, used in conjunction with those it's pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to get lost, which is fun, especially in areas with ambiguous topography.

The other features are nice too, like speed, elevation, distance etc. The speed feature is really fun while canoeing :D . I can paddle solo 6 miles and hour! Yay for me!

Despite all of the nifty things it does, I almost never bring it. Marking waypoints and waiting for a signal is time consuming. My batteries always get low toward the end of a multi-day trip or I just stop using the thing. It's a fun gadget, but certainly not necessary, and probably overly-relied upon these days. :)
Nice geeky features, bottom line GPS is a tool, an aid. It is not more important or better than your brain and logic with any other tool. Once you get beyond the argument of convincing people it is a fallable electronic gadget, fun but not necessary for recreational hiking, then I don't care if it comes along in someone else's pack or not. I personally believe it is a distraction from the joys of observing your surroundings and achieving that accomplished feeling of navigating even in ambiguous topography. Take your time, study your map, follow tons of natural clues, and precision navigation is possible in any terrain we find in the NE woodlands with or without GPS. For me, the wilderness navigation part is as much of a goal as reaching any summit. For others, I understand it may not be so important.

Having said that, I do own a GPS receiver. I've played with it a lot to understand how to use it and know its limitations. But it stays home packed in my SAR Ready Kit with fresh batteries, on call for any search mission I may be called to support. If I was a DEC ranger or a surveyor or had some other such precision needs for my job, then I'd use one too. However, I can not think of very many instances when hiking for my own enjoyment that I needed to know my exact location coordinates to within a few feet, nowhere that it mattered that I couldn't get that information just by looking around. If standing on a shoreline or a mountain peak or almost anyplace in between, you can be as good as a GPS needs to be or better. Otherwise, in featureless flat landscape it doesn't matter if my terrain following and dead reckoning skills are off by a couple of hundred feet - soon enough I'll come to defining natural navigation clues.

I just ask that people using a GPS understand how to continue navigating should any one of their tools fail, including a GPS or a compass (I carry 2, sometimes 3 compasses). I'm not supposed to like getting called to go out on a search. :D
 
I carry both the Map & Compass along with a GPS.

The GPS is a great tool but I'm unable to put my faith in 2 things, 1 - Batteries and 2 reception. I found it's tough to get good reception in a low lying valley on a cloudy day and end up wasting a set of batteries while trying to pick up a signal.

I prefer the old fashioned way. Map & Compass and only relying on my abilities to get out of trouble.
 
Like everyone says, I always carry spare batteries, 2 compasses and maps. But you know, I've never seen that thing fail. I've never heard of one failing either.
I have mismatched the datums though. :)

Anybody else?
 
GPS works great. I use it down here in the flat lands, (where there are no Mountains for reference), when I am on property I am not that familiar with. Waypoints work great for reference and also the "Goto" option will lead you to whatever waypoint you ask it. It takes time to earn your trust (but sometimes that is the same with a compass). Yea, they can be a little pricey, but I think they work excellent.
 
Kevin Rooney said:
Lots of resistance to the GPS still, but that's human nature as it's a new tool.

Yes, I do resist. To marketing, lazyness and easy living. But hey, what do I know ? I like wool, remember ? Maybe one day I'll understand and join the mainstream. And drown :)
 
Neil said:
Like everyone says, I always carry spare batteries, 2 compasses and maps. But you know, I've never seen that thing fail. I've never heard of one failing either.
I have mismatched the datums though. :)

Anybody else?
Silly, you haven't heard because they never found their way out to tell the tale!!!..... :eek:

But I honestly have heard from a ranger friend of a case in Colorado where a hiking couple cell-phoned a local ranger from someplace in the backcountry to ask how to turn on the GPS they just bought on the way to the trail. Other similar anecdotal tales exist that I cannot better verify, probably generated by traditionalists like me. :cool:
 
As others have noted, all 3 (map, compass, and GPS) are just tools. Each can fail, or be lost, etc. And each tells you something different. All integrate together well.

I use a mapping GPS. If I want, I can plot out my intended route and enter it into the GPS beforehand. Or, since it already has the appropriate maps in it for my usual hiking areas, just do no preparation and see my current location and my track plotted on a topo while hiking.

Sometimes I carry it in a pouch attached to my pack shoulder strap which allows me to pop it out at any time and see at a glance where I am. In adition, if I have an active route or an active "goto" on a waypoint I can see how far and what direction to the next waypoint. (Just did a battery life test on my 60CS last night: 14hrs continous operation using possibly less-than-fully-charged 1600MAh NiMH batteries, so I should be able to get 20hrs or so out of 2200+ MAh batteries or lithiums.)

Sometimes, I just throw the GPS in my pack and only get a fix if I need it. This would allow one to get weeks of battery life if needed. A bushwacker using map & compass might do this as a backup. ([Technical] climbers might call this "carrying one's security in one's rucksack". :) )

Another mode would be to carry the GPS in the top of one's pack turned on to record a track so that one can see where one has been after one gets home. This works best if you can load the track into a computer and view it on the large screen plotted on a topo.

2 examples of actual use:
1. Last March, I did a solo Isolation bushwack. http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=63014&postcount=68 . Following a route description, I put waypoints at the turns and connected them into a route and loaded it into my GPS. I also printed out a nice 1:25K scale topo to augment my AMC guidebook topo map. I used the GPS to verify each waypoint as I arrived plus an occasional check along each leg of the bushwack. I also waypointed the stream crossing. I put each leg heading into my compass and used that to guide me between waypoints. (Spider Solo was a few hours a head of me and while I followed his tracks much of the way, I navigated as if there were no tracks. On the way back I broke away from his path for a good bit and followed a compass heading back to the stream crossing. The GPS conviently gave me the heading to the waypoint I had recorded on the way in.)

2. I was doing a long solo BC XC ski. I was 12 mi from the car (at Lincoln Wds) when the sun set (junction of Shoal Pnd Tr and Ethan Pnd Tr) and it was a dark overcast night (new moon). I had been on parts, but not all of the trail before. I had the route programmed into the GPS and used it to keep track of where I was as I skied back to the car. I was able to follow the trail by visual means, but there was one wide open spot which I used prior knowledge to get though. (It might have been difficult or at least taken some time to find the continuation of the route without that prior knowledge--it wasn't obvious as I passed through the opening.)

In both of these cases, I probably would have been ok without the GPS, but it was comforting to have the backup.

Doug
 
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Nessmuk said:
But I honestly have heard from a ranger friend of a case in Colorado where a hiking couple cell-phoned a local ranger from someplace in the backcountry to ask how to turn on the GPS they just bought on the way to the trail. Other similar anecdotal tales exist that I cannot better verify, probably generated by traditionalists like me. :cool:
Sure such tales exist and I'm sure that many are true. But there are also hikers who carry topo map and compass and don't know how to use them either.

Basic use of all three tools is pretty easy and the fact that some do not know how to use them is not much of a reason pro or con any of them.

timmus:
I use both wool and map, compass, and GPS. Each for what it does best.

Doug
 
timmus said:
Yes, I do resist. To marketing, lazyness and easy living. But hey, what do I know ? I like wool, remember ? Maybe one day I'll understand and join the mainstream. And drown :)
I hear what you're saying, and agree (mostly). I think one of the keys is to carefully select which new idea/gadget/etc you choose to integrate. I find such things as Goretex, 4x4's, cell phones, plastic boots, aluminum snowshoes and Windstop fleece hats have added a dimension of safety that allows me to focus more on the physical beauty of the mountains, and helps my family worry less. I'm not ready yet to go back to animal skins, and I know each one of us has to decide where the line is.
 
hey all you multi compass packing people out there. are y'all actually carrying 2 or 3 regular compi (yeah, its a word now) or a real compass and a mini-one with a thermometer? that's what i do and i can't imagine carrying multiple full compi (yeah, its still a word, kinda like guinni, mmmm.....beer). are you mostly worried about losing it or breaking it on whacks? or do y'all bring extra compi on trail hikes too?

just curious, thanks,
 
the starchild said:
hey all you multi compass packing people out there. are y'all actually carrying 2 or 3 regular compi (yeah, its a word now) or a real compass and a mini-one with a thermometer? that's what i do and i can't imagine carrying multiple full compi (yeah, its still a word, kinda like guinni, mmmm.....beer). are you mostly worried about losing it or breaking it on whacks? or do y'all bring extra compi on trail hikes too?
I bring a good sighting protractor compass (silva ranger http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...ctId=737&parent_category_rn=0&vcat=REI_SEARCH ),
a 1/2 inch diameter mini on a wrist strap http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...99&parent_category_rn=4500670&vcat=REI_SEARCH
and a thermometer-compass mini http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...48&parent_category_rn=4500570&vcat=REI_SEARCH

I also carry 3 lights: a big one and two lightweights.

I use the lights far more often than the compasses...

Doug
 
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the starchild said:
hey all you multi compass packing people out there. are y'all actually carrying 2 or 3 regular compi (yeah, its a word now) or a real compass and a mini-one with a thermometer? that's what i do and i can't imagine carrying multiple full compi (yeah, its still a word, kinda like guinni, mmmm.....beer). are you mostly worried about losing it or breaking it on whacks? or do y'all bring extra compi on trail hikes too?

just curious, thanks,
The compi are the real deal - something serviceable. The mini's on therometers are good for when you're on the summit, and someone argues with you about which way is North. You win the arguement, but nothing's at stake.
 
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