Lost Hikers on Monadnock

This incident has a happy ending, fortunately.

No Map + No compass + No knowledge of the area = No buisiness leaving the parking lot.

They did have a cell phone though for all the good that it did. They were at least able to tell people they were lost even if they couldn't tell searchers where they were.

Well, I hope they had a nice hike!

NH_Mtn_Hiker said:

No Map + No compass + No knowledge of the area = No buisiness leaving the parking lot. . . .

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The news report said:

“They did have food and water, but they were not prepared as far as any sort of map of the mountain side or any compass or local knowledge of the mountain,” [New Hampshire Fish and Game Lt. John] Whitmore said.

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I’ll buy criticisms about venturing out without map and compass as being foolhardy, But I can’t buy lack of “local knowledge of the mountain” as being a legit criticism, especially as a stand-alone.

A lot of us hike in places where we have “no local knowledge,” and on a regular basis. The activity is called, if I’m not mistaken, “exploring,” which is how we acquire “local knowledge.”

G.

Boy, you need to get pretty misdirected to lose your way on that trail, unless it was foggy. Did they get lost before they got back on that trail, like up on the Pumpelly, or was it on the White Dot, because I just don't understand how you can get off track. The trail seemed so obvious to me, both times. And I was nine the first time.

grouseking

Yeah, like Grouseking said ... how does one get lost on that trail??? Any idea what the weather conditions were like that day?

That said, I'm glad they made it out ok. And at least they had food and water _ which is more than way too many people have on that mountain.

yea - it takes effort and skill to get truly lost on that trail - map or no map

these dudes should stick to the providence place mall

alpinista said:

Yeah, like Grouseking said ... how does one get lost on that trail???

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Maybe they got lost (and didn't bring a map or compass or "local knowledge") because they read reports saying it is impossbile to get lost on those trails.

Regarding "local knowledge", I'd include a small amount of pre-trip map study as satisfying that requirement. Knowing generally which direction you will be traveling, expecting intersecting trails or not, which way to the nearest road, general lay of the land, bodies of water, etc, etc, etc. In as little as five minutes on the map you will know these things whether you take the map with you or not. Of course that assumes you even think about a map and compass being necessary, if you heard on some online forum that it is impossbile to get lost there in the first place.

Map and compass and at least some map study are necessary minimums for any trip. There is no excuse for not also including trail guides and online knowledge bases for such popular areas, if the area is unknown to the hikers.

Grumpy said:

The news report said:

I’ll buy criticisms about venturing out without map and compass as being foolhardy, But I can’t buy lack of “local knowledge of the mountain” as being a legit criticism, especially as a stand-alone.

A lot of us hike in places where we have “no local knowledge,” and on a regular basis. The activity is called, if I’m not mistaken, “exploring,” which is how we acquire “local knowledge.”

G.

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Agreed. I think adding in the lack of "local knowledge of the mountain" is okay, it eliminates a "what if" in the mind of the reader. If they had a good local knowledge of the mountain, then maybe they would have been okay without a map and compass. But not most places.

sleeping bear said:

Agreed. I think adding in the lack of "local knowledge of the mountain" is okay, it eliminates a "what if" in the mind of the reader. If they had a good local knowledge of the mountain, then maybe they would have been okay without a map and compass. But not most places.

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Exactly my point.

If you know the area, like your own back yard so to speak, then you aren't likely to need a map and compass. Since they didn't know the area, they should have had a map and compass and some basic knowledge on how to use them.

It would also have been helpful if they knew how to read trail signs and follow blazes.

Nessmuk said:

. . .
Regarding "local knowledge", I'd include a small amount of pre-trip map study as satisfying that requirement. Knowing generally which direction you will be traveling, expecting intersecting trails or not, which way to the nearest road, general lay of the land, bodies of water, etc, etc, etc. In as little as five minutes on the map you will know these things whether you take the map with you or not. Of course that assumes you even think about a map and compass being necessary, if you heard on some online forum that it is impossbile to get lost there in the first place.

Map and compass and at least some map study are necessary minimums for any trip. There is no excuse for not also including trail guide books and online knowledge bases.

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To my mind, "local knowledge" implies direct, first hand been-there-done-that type knowledge.

But I can't disagree with the observations here, about "a small amount of pre-trip map study" as providing very basic "local knowledge." Of course, this also can be gained on the fly, correlating the map and compass (and perhaps guidebook type info) to what we're seeing en route.

The big error (or lack) in this case seems to have been not having a map and compass, and perhaps some guidebook type information along, with the capacity (or sense) to use them wisely.

G.

To put this incident in some perspective, the estimate is that 100,000 people a year climb Mt Monadnock, making it (arguably) the second most-climbed mountain in the world after Mt Fuji, and the first if you discount the bus trips up Fuji. There's bound to be lots of amateurs going up Monadnock. I'm surprised there aren't more incidents, actually. If you seek solitude in the mountains, this is not the place to go.

Coincidentally, SPNHF and the state have just reached a new agreement on managing Monadnock, which clearly needs management.

NH_Mtn_Hiker said:

. . .It would also have been helpful if they knew how to read trail signs and follow blazes.

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My experience is that trail signage and blazing protocols are highly variable from one area to another. What prevails here may not prevail there.

It's helpful to know how things are done in a particular place we happen to be hiking, but after 50-plus years of doing this stuff I don't figure to have yet seen it all. This definitely is one of those learn-as-you-go things when visiting a new place. Experience helps in quickly picking up on the prevailing signage-blazing scheme, maybe, but only if you're actually paying attention.

G.

Hopefully these two will not give up on hiking and have learned something from this very frightening experience.
I have had at least a half dozen opportunites during my hiking career to reroute lost souls who did not have a clue where there were on the mountain. One family of nine were trying to access their vehicle parked at the Killington gondola base using the Bucklin trail which is located on the backside of the mountain. Another couple on Mt Wachusett were "following the dots". They believed that the mountain had one trail only. There was a time when I held that same belief. For the longest time I didn't know what two blazes on one tree meant. I had no hiking mentor and surely didn't think that I needed one.
A compass???? For years I carried one and could not use it. It looked good and I had heard that you should carry one. I used to have big battles with a hiking friend because neither one of us could agree on how it really worked in conjunction with a map. Forget the concept of using it to get out of a bad situation. We learned from our countless mistakes and from an AMC course! Ben, the beagle and hiking fool, got us out of more than one mess as the sun was rapidly setting. We carried the packs. He was obviously the brains of our brigade. Our little four legged compass if you will.
The other side of the coin is when counsel is offered to inexperienced hikers and they do not heed your words but rather forge ahead unprepared into danger. I could have easily been one of those on the Rockpile, but for the fact that I summited the first time on the Cog. I talked with the ranger at the desk on arrival and read the "death board". This in combination with the 40 degree summit temps (90 at the base) served to give me a new respect for Mt. W.
Last but not least was "survival gear". I had none. I do now. Live and learn!
No malls for me.
So......I am happy that these hikers are safe and sound. They had gear, food and water. They just need a little more guidance and a little more "experiential" learning.
I surely have made just about every mistake in the book. I am deeply grateful that I can sit at my computer and share this with all of you because it surely could have had a very different ending.

grouseking said:

Boy, you need to get pretty misdirected to lose your way on that trail, unless it was foggy. Did they get lost before they got back on that trail, like up on the Pumpelly, or was it on the White Dot, because I just don't understand how you can get off track. The trail seemed so obvious to me, both times. And I was nine the first time.

grouseking

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My understanding is that they got turned around on the summit and headed down the opposite side. That is relatively easy to do, especially if you're not familiar with that mountain. Not all trails are well marked at the top. All you need is a cloud to come over and more than one person has headed down the wrong way from that summit. IIRC it was cloudy yesterday. I'm not defending them. Not bringing a map of a mountain you're not familiar with is pretty stupid. But having hiked Monadnock often, I do understand how easy is can be for some folks to get turned around on that summit, especially if the weather wasn't clear and sunny.

Today the weather was cloudy, cold, and snowing on and off from where the Cascade Link comes into the Pumpelly trail all the way to the summit. Pumpelly is still icy in spots but can be barebooted the whole way by going around the icy spots.

Maddy said:

So......I am happy that these hikers are safe and sound. They had gear, food and water. They just need a little more guidance and a little more "experiential" learning.
I surely have made just about every mistake in the book. I am deeply grateful that I can sit at my computer and share this with all of you because it surely could have had a very different ending.

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Well said. Lots of us have "been there, did that" (i.e., something stupid) when we started out. We'd probably do something equally stupid out of sheer ignorance again if we moved into a new sport. The trouble with hiking in NE is that it doesn't seem dangerous at all, and 99.99% of the time it isn't dangerous. Something technical and clearly tricky, like sky-diving, rock-climbing, sure, we'd take lessons, read books, etc. But hiking is just walking uphill, right? It's very difficult to find a way to educate people who are new to hiking that maps and compasses (and how to use them) and such are essential tools. That's the issue see it. Experience, good and bad, ends up being the default teacher. Maybe that's OK, I don't know.

While I agree with Map and Compass crowd, there might be other dynamics in play. One might have thought the other knew exactly which way to go and fell into a comfort zone, and didn't pay attention, didn't speak up or didn't feel comfortable 2nd guessing the other. Y'know that feeling where you zone out and all of a sudden you realize you've hiked a few miles deep in thought and don't remember anything about it.....

I remember once when I was doing the Old Loggers Path (30 mile loop in PA) I got to the ghost town, parked and was so amped up to go, I grabbed my pack & dog and headed down the trail.

It was only about an hour and a half later (about 3 miles into it) when nothing was jiving with my trail notes that I stopped and pulled out the map - much to my embarrassment, I realized I took off clockwise instead of my intended counter clockwise loop. I had to do a little planning on the fly, but these simple kind of mistakes do happen when we are preoccupied with dogs, kids, others or just emotions.

Waumbek said:

Experience, good and bad, ends up being the default teacher. Maybe that's OK, I don't know.

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Mark Twain gives us a rather graphical image on the value of experience: "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.

I live a few miles from Monadnock and the summit was in and out of clouds Friday. As Roxi mentioned, you can easily go down a wrong trail when you are not familiar with the mountain. Also the blazes are white for trails heading up and down the mountain while other trails not going to the summit are yellow or red. The Dublin, Marlboro and Smith Summit trails above tree line are relativly poorly marked. I have been on these trails many times and at times "lost" the trail and had to re-find it. This usally happens not when I hike alone but when I am hiking/talking with someone.

However I really cannot understand why they did not have a map. You basically have to refuse to take one from the park rangers.

I've gotten turned around on Monadnock in the fog myself. The top of the White Dot is especially easy to miss since it drops down suddenly with not much of a marker.
What I don't understand is this:

-they left the summit at 2PM.
-they didn't hit a road until eighteen hours later.

I know they didn't have a map or compass, but if they were in phone contact, how hard would it have been to tell them just to walk downhill instead of going in circles? It's not much more than five miles in the worst case, with no major obstacles, even if you're bushwhacking - just follow the nearest stream. From any road it's only a few miles to a house or town.

nartreb said:

What I don't understand is this:

-they left the summit at 2PM.
-they didn't hit a road until eighteen hours later.

I know they didn't have a map or compass, but if they were in phone contact, how hard would it have been to tell them just to walk downhill instead of going in circles? It's not much more than five miles in the worst case, with no major obstacles, even if you're bushwhacking - just follow the nearest stream. From any road it's only a few miles to a house or town.

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Perhaps they didn't have a light.
And perhaps they backtracked some section of trail.

Doug