tuckerman rangers - I love it when they tell it like it is!

I couldn't believe it when I saw people with snowshoes on washington this weekend - here are the rangers take!


One on the long fall injuries occurred to a snowshoer who fell in the upper half of the gully. From year to year we see injured individuals who where snow shoeing in the Ravines. Snowshoes are great for deep snow in rolling terrain they, but are absolutely not intended for steep icy gully climbing. Several years ago, over a about a week we responded to 3 people that had fallen into crevasses. We were shocked each time we went down in, "Snowshoes!?". Each got into icy terrain above and fell. Even with snowshoe crampon systems they are designed and intended to float over snow not ice climb. So, unless we get a huge snow storm between now and June leave your snowshoes at home. I know they're new and you what to try them out, but you'll be doing you're self a favor. When it's very icy an ice axe and crampons are more appropriate equipment than either snowshoes, skis, snowboards or sleds.

And not just Tuckerman Ravine. Part of their message is worth generalizing to many other locales at similar elevations, especially if the night and morrow bring any liquid precip before any snow that might fall:

The Tuckerman Ravine trail from Pinkham up to Hermit Lake is extremely icy. Having crampons or at least ski poles is highly recommended. It's rare for me to think injury is possible hiking up to Hermit Lake, but right now a hard fall could do it.

Sardog1, I agree that posted warnings are necessary in many areas of the Whites...I'm thinking that it would be helpful if the message stated that 'crampons and hiking poles are regarded as necessary equipment if one is to venture into this area'. Claiming that 'or at least ski poles' may give the impression that the risk is minimal or is being overstated.....You guys risk a lot to head out and help those who often have gotten themselves in a tough spot due to poor planning or ignorance that comes with the less experienced hiker. This is not to say that those of us who have plenty of experience will never find ourselves in need of rescue...
...Jade

I agree re: the poles alone being inadequate. Mostly I just wanted to alert folks to the ice hazard, which is not obvious to anyone living away from the mountains these days.

Personally, I wouldn't attempt a trip this week without at least Stabilicers on the low angle parts, and crampons and ice axe on the steeper.

Tucks has always been a magnet for everything from hardcore pro hikers (like me) to yuppies looking to be where its at with thier new fancy gear. That is the4 essence of it, there are more then enough rangers and signs heck Pinkham notch crew spews the do's and donts all day long but they still slip on by and do dumb things, In spite of the ignorance I dont wish ill on anybody mind you and have offered my share of info to anyone. But as in nature the weak in every species gets thinned out eventually.

sierra said:

Tucks has always been a magnet for everything from hardcore pro hikers (like me) to yuppies looking to be where its at with thier new fancy gear.

Click to expand...

Dear Mr (or Mrs.) "hardcore pro hiker",
Regarding these "yuppies looking to be where it's at with thier new fancy gear"...just a few questions: Exactly where should they go to hike? Should people who earn a good living buy used spartan gear? And most importantly...How does one become a "hardcore" hiker? Is there a form I need to fill out? Classes to take? I wanna be "hardcore" too!

dvbl said:

...How does one become a "hardcore" hiker?

Click to expand...

Simply state you are hardcore on this website....that's all there is to it. It's hiking. Not exactly an exclusive or heroic endeavor. It's one foot in front of the other. It's recreation.

dvbl said:

How does one become a "hardcore" hiker?

Click to expand...

I think you first have to ice / rock climb - and then only hike the cool, rugged mountains. O yeah - you have to be real edgy and listen to loud music too.

arm said:

in the northeast it's "wickid hahdcoah" (wicked hardcore)

if anyone knows about hardcore hiker training courses, let me know, growing tired of being a wanna-be

where is it at ? will it still be there, even if we become hardcore someday ?

Click to expand...

Didn't you just attempt Aconcagua? Being hold up in a tent for a couple days in -40 qualifies you for hardcore, in my book.

Dvbl,

I don't think anyone is trying to insult anyone, it's just that Tuckerman Ravine, especially with the avalanches at this time of year, is really not the place to try out gear you're not familiar with.

Better to choose someplace like Mt. Pierce, Mt. Carrigain, Mt. Garfield, etc., to get used to winter hiking.

lx93 said:

Dvbl,

I don't think anyone is trying to insult anyone...

Click to expand...

I'm not going to be too vocal here, because I don't want this thread to get locked or edited. But first of all, it most certainly was an insult, an intentional insult from the "hardcore pro hiker" to the "yuppies looking to be where it's at with their new fancy gear". It wasn't an insult to me, because I'm not young enough, urban enough, nor professional enough to be a yuppy, and I don't have fancy gear (for example, I have an old wool/acrylic skull cap, and by cutting of the top of it, I can pull it all the way down to use as a neck-gaiter in the winter; works great). Look, one can agree or disagree about the larger point that was being made about people getting in over their heads. In fact, that's a valuable topic to discuss, especially during these shoulder months, which can be deceivingly dangerous. But that was a snotty arrogant insult, and it needed to be pointed out as such.

Everyone has to start their hiking career somewhere, and yes, the veterans out there might get a chuckle or two watching them try out their new hiking legs. But from among the vast ranks of the newbies will come a certain percentage of really dedicated hikers (I prefer that to 'hardcore', and 'pro'? do you get paid to hike?) just like the people at this forum. They will go through the whole 48 thing (and then winter 48) 100 highest etc, and will find that they just plain love being outside and walking just like the rest of us.
Why not cut them a little slack at the beginning?

Chas.

Sunday I overnighted at Hermit shelter after bailing out of the high winds on Boot Spur Tr. While at the shelter I heard that earlier in the day a group of 5 skiers fell practically the whole length of Hillmans highway, several of them severely injuried. According to two other skiers I bunked with, the 5 apparently didn't correctly access the ice conditions of the route, and seemed to have fallen lemming style...one after another. The word 'yuppie' was never mentioned, but the words 'inexperienced' and 'college kids' were thrown about quite a bit.

They all survived. No doubt these 'kids' will come back next year as 'hardcore' skiers. that's kinda how it works, yes?

One of the plummeters posted on Time for Tuckerman. They definately made a poor judgement call and recognized that. Stuff happens, we all make mistakes and that's one way that we gain experience.

-dave-

I guess I should respond but to be honest this is a non issue. My post was meant to illustrate a point and after re-reading my post I stand by what I said, but it was meant tongue in cheek. Yes I am a hardcore hiker, yes there are yuppies out there, yes there are beginners out there, and yes I agree we all start out at the beginning and we all have a right to go anywhere.
dvbl (sp) really dude I think you got all worked up for nothing, one mans opinion is just that.
Have a great day and be safe.

Okay, seriously. The hardcore vs newbie arguments are getting old.

giggy said:

Even with snowshoe crampon systems they are designed and intended to float over snow not ice climb. So, unless we get a huge snow storm between now and June leave your snowshoes at home.

Click to expand...

As a kid I remember my dad being angry with me once for trying to pound a nail into a board using the side of a pair of pliers. I believe that train of thought applies here.

You have to use the right tool for the job.​

David Metsky said:

One of the plummeters posted on Time for Tuckerman. They definately made a poor judgement call and recognized that. Stuff happens, we all make mistakes and that's one way that we gain experience.

Click to expand...

The trick is to survive long enough to make one's mistakes at a higher skill level...

Doug

David Metsky said:

One of the plummeters posted on Time for Tuckerman. They definately made a poor judgement call and recognized that. Stuff happens, we all make mistakes and that's one way that we gain experience.

-dave-

Click to expand...

ya know what? don't sweat what others do--especially if it's kinda dumb. just let darwinism take it's course. then there'll be less folks crowdin' up my woods!

word.

bruno,
here's the deal, If I ever meet you, the first, wait first 2 beers are on me.
Sierra