Urgent situation at Flat Mountain Pond!

Many of you, including me have fallen in love with this spectacular pond unlike no other pond in the White Mountains. Almost a mile long, the most productive pond for brook trout in NH, beautiful views, and remote, this pond is in serious trouble. Working with New Hampton Fish and Game, I have been in the discussion of what is happening at the Flat Mountain Pond Dam. Last year I heard the potential problem of the forest service thinking it was a hazard that if the dam blew out that it could injure someone on the Bennet Street trail...Which is stupid in my opinion. The dam is an ancient wooden dam that is in dire need of rebuilding. The problem is that there are such strict costs associated now with building dams that it might not be possible. Don Miller and Scott Decker, head biologists from fish and game are hiking in to assess the situation in May. Fish and Game as you may know is in a serious funing crisis so it would be hard for them to take the brunt and build it, but that may have to happen. There is question to who owns the dam and who should take responsability, also the new wilderness regulations possibly changing for that area in the future. I think the forest service should definetly help..How can you lose a incredible resource like this? I am told the chances of losing it could be even 50-50! There is a chance that if it comes down to it fish and game can only rebuild one and sacrafice another which sadly is provins pond in the easter Whites. If the wilderness regulations coming into place will hamper the continued maintence on the dam..then we will lose Flat Mountain Pond forever because they wont want to spend 50,000 dollars building it and not be able to do maintence. The Forest Service would slowly drain it... I will cry if we lose it, and as a backcountry fly fisherman, hiker, it will be the death of my favorite place in the White Mountains. Write letters to the forest service explaining how wonderful this place is! Even to congress! This is a serious situation. Fish and Game understands the importance of this as a fishery and is fighting to keep it. Whoever loves this place needs to help! -Mattl
ps. I have pictures on my website if you have never been there. Check out galleries. http://www.geocities.com/mattlacroix4/great_outdoors.html

damn the dam. go natural.

Isn't that what trail fees and taxes are collected for? Gee you pay for parking, hiking permitts and are restricted to pay per camping sites and huts and now you are told it's too expensive to rebuild your dam? Get rid of those hotels in the sky and use the money where it was intended to go.

Trying to view your pictures, but getting this error;

"The GeoCities web site you were trying to view has temporarily exceeded its data transfer limit. Please try again later."

I've only been up that way once, on the way to a bushwhack through Lost Pass and beyond. I was planning another trip this spring as soon as the stream crossings mellow out a bit.

Chas

The website is free so it can only take a few people at a time. I have 4 pictures or so from Flat Mountain on there. The Forest Service unlike fish and game has plenty of money to help..-Mattl

For those interested here are a picture of the dam and of the pond.

Flat Mountain Pond is a special place. However, wouldn't the loss of the damn result in a return to the way nature made the area, which was two smaller ponds? IIRC, the damn created one large pond out of two. How high did the water level rise as a result of the damn? Would this harm the trout? I would think that they will be fine if we are left with the original two smaller ponds. How much surface area of still water would be lost?

You have me interested. I think I'll hike to the pond soon and look around, haven't been there in a few years. It's pretty in spring.

Keep us all up to date on this situation. Thanks, Matt.

The pond would be reduced to a couple beaver ponds. The beavers origonally had dammed the ponds to be what they used to be. Without beavers they had been almost nothing. Just a marshy stream flowing through. Most of the trout would die, and it would be like the beaver ponds towards Lost Pass. Its essential that we keep the dam and save this natural wonder. All we are doing are helping the beavers and creating more habitat. Sometimes nature needs a little help. -Mattl

is that pond stocked or are they native trout? question coming from a non-fisherperson

Stocking

FLAT MOUNTAIN POND WATERVILLE VALLEY EBT FING 4,826 21.50

Stocked: Eastern Brook Trout, Fingerlings, Total 4826, Total pounds 21.50 Statistics from NH F&G 2005

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fishing/fish_stocking_report_2005.htm

Stocked by helicopter. Damned few native trout in NH these days

I say let the pond(s) revert back to what they were.

Mattl said:

The pond would be reduced to a couple beaver ponds. The beavers origonally had dammed the ponds to be what they used to be. Without beavers they had been almost nothing. Just a marshy stream flowing through. Most of the trout would die, and it would be like the beaver ponds towards Lost Pass. Its essential that we keep the dam and save this natural wonder. All we are doing are helping the beavers and creating more habitat. Sometimes nature needs a little help. -Mattl

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How is it a "natural wonder", if it's created by a man-made dam. I think my taxdollars can be better spent elsewhere.

Flat Mountain has very good spawning habitat and if you walk into the many beaver dams and streams you will see all the wild trout that live there. They stock it will a fingering called the Kennabago brook trout from Maine that has a very wild strain. This is so they can gaurentee large trout, helping out mother nature a little. As for the pond, it has always been a good size pond many years ago when beavers had a very sturdy dam in place. They have not done as much work recently. The dam was put in place to back the beavers dam up and help hold the water level, it did raise it a couple feet also. So its not just an artificial pond, its a raised and reinforced pond which just connected the two ponds together. Anyone who has gone there knows it has some of the most wildlife activity and habitat anywhere in NH. One trip I stayed there for 3 days, I saw 4 moose! Also, it would not be coming out of tax dollars..fish and game gets it money from license sales and grants. Regardless, the forest service really should help out. Fish and game is sick of taking the blame for maintence on those areas when FS uses the area just as much.-Mattl

Wilderness status

If this is in the expanded Sandwich Wilderness plan I think that its removal is probably moot. Back in the 50s and 60s we used to drive 4WD in to the pond to fish.

This is quite an interesting and confusing debate, with many different sides and angles. I have yet to visit this pond, but have seen enough pictures to want to explore the area during some long weekend. So, the nature freak in me wants to keep a pond around, even if it isn't a true natural pond. If its true that the trout will die if the pond is drained, them I am dead set against the removal of the dam. How could someone knowingly kill off thousands of fish because of a shortage of money. There must be some way to compromise this situation.

As someone mentioned earlier, maybe the extension of the Sandwich Range Wilderness will end this discussion, but I would think they would try to make the decision before the wilderness is actually extended. Heck, I don't know how the rules go.

But in the end, I think it would be a sad thing to get rid of a pond like this because from what I can understand, it is one of or if not the best trout ponds in the Whites.

grouseking

Dalraida said:

If this is in the expanded Sandwich Wilderness plan I think that its removal is probably moot. Back in the 50s and 60s we used to drive 4WD in to the pond to fish.

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In the '30s and '40s we used to go in by train and cut spruce pulp

In the '80s it was proposed to let 2 vehicles per day containing elderly and handicapped drive in so they could get a Wilderness experience, after some acrimony from both sides it didn't happen.

Don, from F@G, just emailed me in respose to a querry about the situation. He says that Scott and he, as well as some folks from the fed, will be hiking to the pond on May 3rd. If the weather is right for that that type of hike (rainy or overcast) I'll be hiking in to meet and chat with them. Anyone interested, feel free to meet.

BTW, mi wyf just explaind tha corect speling of thu struchure is 'dam', not 'damn'.

post'r boy said:

damn the dam. go natural.

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I agree with post'r boy!!

The dam is an artificial contrivance. We are constantly wanting to decomission hydro dams which are actually doing some good and are generating power via a renewable source, but to argue for keeping a dam strictly for recreational purposes seems ludicrous.

IMHO, we should only have a limited number of dams in place and they should only be ones that serve a fuction that provides a significant benefit to a large number of people. These dams should operate in as eco-friendly a manner as possible. Otherwise, let the waters flow freely just as nature intended!

to argue for keeping a dam strictly for recreational purposes seems ludicrous

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Ludicrous too interfere with nature? I respectfully disagree. My dad has been fighting "his" beavers (never harming THEM) by tearing down their "natural" damns for YEARS. Otherwise his pond would become a vast swamp threatening his house (he was there first too) as well as ruining his most excellent bass fishing. There are many, many free flowing creeks in the Whites, but not too many excellent trout ponds/habitat.

I agree with the Posterboy, getv rid of the bloody thing!

Depending on how long it has been there I wonder if it would qualify as a historic structure. If it was able to receive historical status, that would really through a monkey wrench into the works. You then have preservation of a historical structure competing with wilderness protocol. This has happened before with certain railroad structures that were considered to have historical significance.

I personally see no reason it shouldn't be rebuilt and maintained. It is unique and doesn't impact in an adverse way. IMHO

Keith