personal safety

Skibones, Periwinkle, Maddy and Poison Ivy are blessed with strong self-preservation genes. I admire that. Some here consider them paranoid; I consider them intelligent. I'd place my trust in them; I would never trust those who mock the idea of self-protection.

Good thing Louise Shaput was unarmed. Her gun might have been taken and used against her.

forestnome said:

Skibones, Periwinkle, Maddy and Poison Ivy are blessed with strong self-preservation genes. I admire that. Some here consider them paranoid; I consider them intelligent. I'd place my trust in them; I would never trust those who mock the idea of self-protection.

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I can't help but think this was directed toward me - nobody here was being mocked, I just personally think its a bit over the top to carry weapons in the MTNs.. But to each their own - people have the right to do what they wish and I respect that.

<mod hat>
This is always a touchy subject. Please be respectful of other people's opinions. State your case; don't attack other posters.
</mod hat>

-dave-

forestnome said:

Skibones, Periwinkle, Maddy and Poison Ivy are blessed with strong self-preservation genes. I admire that. Some here consider them paranoid; I consider them intelligent. I'd place my trust in them; I would never trust those who mock the idea of self-protection.

Good thing Louise Shaput was unarmed. Her gun might have been taken and used against her.

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I don't think I understand your point here. Are you saying Louise Shaput should have been carrying a gun? I don't get the impression that the four posters you mention above are suggesting that, rather just the opposite. Correct me if I am wrong.

skibones said:

I agree that most people on the trails in NH are safe but there have been occasional instances where hikers have found themselves in trouble. About eight years ago two women were hiking on one of the trails in Waterville Valley-not sure if it was Drakes Brook. A man with a gun assulted them and told them to take off all their clothes, which they did . They managed to get away from him and ran onto route 49, still naked where the police found them. Not sure if they ever found the man. Could these women have protected themselves if they were armed? Not sure if it would have helped or made the situation worse, but the woods are not as safe as you think. So I still think it may be prudent to take some precautions.

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I don't recall ever hearing about this. I'd be interested to know how they managed to get away from him.

The scary thing about carrying a weapon is that (in addition to all the other reasons) it will do you more harm than good unless you can bring yourself to use it. Perhaps not a big deal with a can of pepper spray, but could you slash someone? Shoot someone? No, really, be honest with yourself. No amount of range training can prepare a person for that decision.

All that said, I do sometimes carry a 30-30 when hiking. Only in November, though, and the fact that I call it "hiking" instead of "hunting" should give you a clue about how much I've used it!

No amount of range training can prepare a person for that decision.

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I disagree. Consistent training removes that indecision. That what the DIs taught us.

I don't carry anything in the NE. Out west I do carry beary spray. I don't carry a gun, but can honestly say, at times I wish I had one in Denali. The Grizzilies get pretty close!!

Whatever works for individuals, more power to them.

Peace.

No amount of fear could ever persuade me to carry a gun. We put ourselves in danger everyday by just getting up in the morning whether we are in the mountains or at home. As we have been saying along in this thread the best things we can do for ourselves is to use good common sense, trust your instincts,carry mace,take a course in self defense and hope that you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.
kmac
"Let the fear of danger be a spur to prevent it; he that fears not, gives advantage to the danger. ~frances quarles~

Respectfully disagree

Mad Townie said:

The scary thing about carrying a weapon is that (in addition to all the other reasons) it will do you more harm than good unless you can bring yourself to use it. Perhaps not a big deal with a can of pepper spray, but could you slash someone? Shoot someone? No, really, be honest with yourself. No amount of range training can prepare a person for that decision.

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Mad Townie, you have a valid point, but let me point out that self preservation allows a person to do something that otherwise, they believe they couldn't do. For the joe common public, range training teaches them how to use a weapon but ususally not under a stressful situation as us in Law Enforcement are trained. BUT, let me tell you, most people, who if in a life or death (perceived or real) situation, will most certainly be able to use that gun/knife/weapon. HOWEVER, as I stated before, a gun is poorest form of protection unless you have easy access to it. How many folks, who acutally carry a weapon while hiking, carry it within easy access. Trust, me, in a backpack is NOT easy access. Very few, I'd assure you. (thought I know what you mean about Denali Jaytrek57)

However, a leatherman, pocket knife, pepper spray, horn can be placed within easy reach for use. I'm not talking about using them for a bear, but for personal safety otherwise. These are also items that can be used in a survival situation. Well, maybe not pepperspray unless you left your red pepper flakes at home and you wanted to spice up your dinner.

As stated previously in this thread, survival not only depends on what you can do physically, but your common sense and mental state of mind. And I'm not just talking about getting lost in the woods...

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."

giggy said:

I just personally think its a bit over the top to carry weapons in the MTNs..

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For the mountains of the NE USA and nearby Canada, I agree. For the mountains of Afganistan, one could make a stronger case for carrying. In polar bear country, it is generally advised that one carry a rifle or shotgun (humans are on the menu...).

All depends on the local risk profile.

Doug

I'd have to agree with those who say that it's generally unnecessary to carry a weapon ,per se, in the mountains of the NE. The items or tools that can be utilized as a weapon are nearly limitless, however. In my post I talked about super-sizing my pocket knife. Depending on the hike and the intended route/activities I may carry an axe, fixed blade knife, folding knife, machete in anticipation of needing it as a tool but also having it available as a weapon. I've never carried a firearm and don't see the need outside of hunting season for the northeast.

I'll be honest, I'm comfortable in the woods, dark or no, but my mind can play tricks on me. Noises can be amplified in the dark, shadows look like they're moving, a stump takes on the shape of a crouching puma (that's pronounced pew-ma, not poo-ma for the non-Smothers Brothers fans out there...) and knowing that the axe/knife/machete is nearby is a comfort.

Could I use it in a real (although very, very, unlikely) defensive situation? Who the heck knows?

Do I expect to ever in the remaining years of my life to ever have to defend myself in the woods? No.

I'll still carry my big knife, though.

Hiking Solo

I have hike solo on almost all my hikes. I HAVE NEVER HAD A REAL PROBLEM (from other humans) ON THE TRAIL!!!!!
I carry no weapons except my hiking poles. I have never needed a weapon or would I ever think of carrying one.
You would have to carry something on your belt to be of any use. What are you going to do..."Oh, excuse me for a minute while I whip off my pack, open it up, fumble though it, find my weapon, take it out, and threaten you with it"?????

I would like to think most people are in the mountains for the same reason I am.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
Have a good hike.....Walker

carole said:

I don't think I understand your point here. Are you saying Louise Shaput should have been carrying a gun? I don't get the impression that the four posters you mention above are suggesting that, rather just the opposite. Correct me if I am wrong.



I don't recall ever hearing about this. I'd be interested to know how they managed to get away from him.

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My point is that I strongly disagree with the attitude that people are safer unarmed than armed, because your gun could be used against you. This happens extremely rarely. Police officers have had their weapons taken from them, but how often? Should they be unarmed? I think they are safer being armed. It's no different for the rest of us; you are more safe armed than unarmed. The statistics for survival of victims are beyond obvious.

If you were ever in Louise Chaput's situation, would you be happy that you were unarmed? I am not saying that all women should be armed(though I'd prefer it), but how in the world can anyone say she was better of unarmed?!!!

I doubt the posters that I praised hike with a weapon. I was talking about the common sense they display with their concern for personal safety, as contrasted with those who are blazee.

Giggy, I wasn't refering to you in particular, and I mean no disrespect. A review of this thread will show an overall "nothing to worry about" attitude. We are all free to be paranoid or naive, or anywhere in between. I just have to speak out when I hear the attitude that there is nothing to worry about, or that a gun presents an increased risk, rather than decreased risk, to the owner. I strongly agree with the poster who stressed the impotance of training.

The RAD described by Maddy would greatly benefit every women.

For the record, I hike with only a 4" fixed blade. At the trailhead I look around at people and cars, but I'm really only thinking about the contents of my truck. I leave it unlocked so the windows don't get smashed. The only thing of value I leave in there is camping gear, which is always in the truck. Otherwise, I'm carefree and unconcerned about thugs when I go hiking. I've never even heard of a man being assaulted. It seams to be women who are at risk, and I want them to be safe.

I guess pepper gas would be the lightest weapon to carry. A pistol in a quick release hip pack would make it easily accesible, but it would add two lbs total weight for a s&w .38 airweight loaded with poach. I think being in the woods can give you a false sense of security. Even though the chances are slight, you need to make a decision if two lbs is alot to add for your safety on the very remote chance that a weido might be lurking in the woods.

Well said Forestnome!
Being prepared is not the same as being paranoid. Most of us carry all of our "safety" gear when we hike. We all know what that entails. We do it "just in case". By doing this are we paranoid? Are we hiking overwhelmed with fear that this could be the day we die of hypothermia and get hopelessly lost in the mountains??? We are just very aware that something could go wrong and we have at our disposal what we need to try to save ourselves. We exert an ounce of caution because it is "worth a pound of cure". Some of us have taken "map and compass courses", "backpacking courses", etc. We discuss these topics here time and again helping to educate each other. Having some good solid knowledge about how to protect yourself is no different. Some women might feel they need to carry a weapon and I doubt it's at the bottom of their pack. I personally hate guns and won't ever carry one. I will however take the RAD course again, and I will also take the more advanced one where they teach you how to get away from someone who is armed with a weapon. IMHO this is as critical as any other piece of gear that I own.
It's true we do get away with it "most of the time" but think about it....not ALL of the time. "Denial" is not life insurance. It has been my experience that learning how to defend yourself makes you less fearful not paranoid. Being prepared does not increase the risk that you will encounter a perpetrator. It does give you the skills to try to save your own life. Isn't that what we do when we fill our packs with "emergency" gear???

I have both citronella defense and pepper defense spray. I mainly carry it in case my dogs ever got into it with another dog on the trail but it would come in handy if I ever ran into anyone questionable.

Since I historically hike and backpack solo; I feel better having something.

Sabrina

RAD courses are offered at many universities. Does anyone know if there are any RAD courses offered in NH? I don't think Plymouth State university offers one for women up north, and I know a few hikers that are interested in taking it.

Skibones...in reply to your question contact your local police dept. They should be able to direct you. If not, contact the PD in the nearest largest city where you live.
Also if you search on the internet "New Hampshire RAD course" there are a number of listings there. IF these are not accessible to you they would most likely be able to direct you to a course in your area. I don't think they are all listed on the net.
I took mine at the YMCA near where I live. Others are offered in the local schools in the evening. They have them for all ages now, even the very young and the elderly. I was in a women's course but there were some teens there with their moms.
Good luck.

Oleoresin Capsicum spray, aka Pepper spray isn't a bad option. Buy the highest concentration percentage you can. In MA, you need a firearms ID card from the local police to purchase and carry it. I don't know about NH. I do know, from personal experience, if you don't check the wind direction before discharging pepper spray, it will burn you eyes, make your nose run and make breathing extremely difficult. Then again, if a potential bad guy saw you walking around like a zombie, gasping for air, smashing into trees because you can't see, I think he'll run off.

In NH you need a pistol/revolver license to carry a concealed gun if you are a resident. It is legal to carry an exposed weapon-not sure if you need to be a NH resident to do that.
Good point about the pepper gas and the wind.