Barebothable, crampons & snowshoes! ?

After yesterday, when We need to insist for the people put the snowshoes, on the Bigslide trail and today with the very bad holes on the Nippletop trail I can not resist!!

Snowshoes 101.

1- snowshoes: nice invention to be able to hike over the snow.

2- crampons: nice invention to be able to hike in the ice condition.

The second, crampons can not make the snowshoes job!!!

The rule is over 8 inches of snow You MUST use the snowshoes.

But if You have a real respect for the other people, when You can see, after 2 steps You made a hole over Your runningshoes it was the time to put your snoshoes on.

If You think it will be faster to do not use the snowshoes, just compare this time: Today, We need 55 minutes between Dial and Nippletop with wet and glue snow, usualy We need the same time in the summer condition.

We need 75 minutes for a round trip Colvin-Blake-Colvin, usualy in the summer, We need 90 minutes!!! Faster to go down & faster to go up!!!!

If You will met Pinpin Junior and You will have snowshoes, You will see a smile in my face, if You will not have snowshoes You will have a discussion with me.

It is too dangerous for the next peoples to hike in a bad conditions only because You think it is not necessary to use the snowshoes.

I hope every body will have a special reflection for this small thing!

Thank You.

Pinpin Junior.

PINPIN JUNIOR said:

We need 75 minutes for a round trip Colvin-Blake-Colvin, usualy in the summer, We need 90 minutes!!! Faster to go down & faster to go up!!!!

Click to expand...

Will I be able to go that fast if I wear snowshoes?

Why stop there?

Snowshoes 201:



3-The first person breaking trail hikes in a normal fashion. The second person ALTERNATES their snowshoe print, thereby making the trail a wider, smoother swath. Persons three & four follow in the same path, continuing to pack it down. Persons five & six begin to widen the trail in a similar fashion to the first two. Etc.

4-When hiking steep sections, after the initial trailbreaking (see persons one & two above), everyone else walks in the exact same spot. We can formulate "steps" up the steep slope, making it much easier on the calves. Every 50-100 steps the first person who was breaking trail steps off to the side and breaks a flat resting area for everyone else.

5-There will be no butt-sliding down the trail. This will make the trail too smooth, and will eventually ice it over too quickly.

**Please note, for those who do not follow the rules will have to allow the others to kick them in the shins with their crampons on.

Fast snowshoes!!

Hi Pete.

Yes, specialy if You will be able to catch a fast rabbit.

2 exemples:

1- In the winter, with perfect snow condition, lest of 3 hours, from the ADK parking, Marcy-Gray-Skylight top... We never made this time in all other condition.

2- Same condition: only in the sun light, (without headlamp) from ADK parking to the same place: Redfield-Allen-Skylight-Gray-Marcy...Never in the summer We attempt the same trip!!!

Yes We agree, when the snow is bad We are a little bit slow but usualy faster if We do not use snowshoes.

Have a good time in this special period..

Pinpin Junior.

Hoorah!!

Here! Here! Pinpin.....
I agree, Postholes are for making fences, not winter trails.

Bon Raquette mon ami!

As one of the two "rabbits" from Pin Pin's first post, it probably also bears mention that wearing crampons in deep snow (besides damaging the trail) makes it much harder to climb. Pete & I estimated that our anonymous friend who advanced both us and Pin Pin probably sank roughly 18 inches with every step- not a fun way to climb Colvin!! Snowshoes are definitely faster.

Weather was BEAUTIFUL on Sunday- best snowshoeing trip of the year. Closing in on our first 46....

Picture of Pinpin

Just in case any of you have never seen Pinpin, Here's a link that has his photo:

http://mbgnet.mobot.org/sets/taiga/animals/rabbit.htm

Mais Oui Pete, that is a very good likeness. Pinpin = le Lapin Agile, n'est-ce pas?

He was lost for quite a while and fending on his own in the big woods? Right??

Pinpin Senior spent some time lost in the Sewards after he jumped out of Alain's rucksack and was left behind. Luckily I ran into him - he was sitting on a rock in the melting snow. It seems he had forgotten his personal locator beacon and had to wait a long time for a rescue.


Junior must have learned a thing or two from dear old Dad, because he has managed to stay out of trouble - so far.

Re: Re: Barebothable, crampons & snowshoes! ?

Pete_Hickey said:

5-There will be no butt-sliding down the trail. This will make the trail too smooth, and will eventually ice it over too quickly.

Click to expand...

That's only my favorite part of the winter!!!

PINPIN JUNIOR said:

But if You have a real respect for the other people, when You can see, after 2 steps You made a hole over Your runningshoes it was the time to put your snoshoes on.

Click to expand...

A running shoe / snowshoe combinination...?? There was about 8 inches of snow yesterday when I was hiking, but I wore crampons. I refuse to wear snowshoes on packed snow and ice. I saw several people doing just that and they looked miserable (as well as unsafe). Face it, not everyone knows the deal.

NH live free or die

I am thankful that NH, and the whites have no mandatory snowshoe rule. I for one enjoy the option based on trail conditions. Most of the trails in the Whites are hard packed and can be bare booted. I let the trail dictate what I wear. Most of those post holes are probably from hikers stepping aside to let others by.

PinPin Jr hikes almost every day and a lot of the broken out trails that we enjoy were opened up by him or some other hard working person or group that probably wore snowshoes. There is nothing finer than hiking a well worn trail that has been packed by many snowshoes. As stated above the times are much faster when the trails are smooth. This makes for a great day. When someone for whatever reason comes along and postholes the whole trail it makes a struggle for everyone coming behind. The statement "most of the trails in the Whites are hard packed" is nice. You're lucky(?) that they have so much traffic. If you have been following the ADK trip reports you will see that is not the case here except the very main access trails. It is only considerate to not wreck the trails for everyone else. Last year I went up Tabletop via the Marcy ski trail and despite the numerous signs at the trailhead and at many points on the ski trail someone had postholed up to their crotch at least 15 times in the very middle of this trail. If you were trying to ski down this beautiful trail you would have a different opinion.

Nobody moves.... nobody gets hurt!

I absolutely agree with your signature. So, when somebody moves, people get hurt. There is always going to be someone who postholes every winter.

Bad move!!!

Every body hiked Calking brook trail, from the parking to the place wher We acrossed this brook, can see what a only people can destroy good snowshoes tracks!!!!

Hikerick... We saw where You remove your crampons, where You finaly put your snowshoes on and remove to early...

The nice confortable path was changing in Swiss chesse, where WE CAN SEE EACH YOUR STEP.

Please, Can You use snowshoes in warm temperature.

Thank You.

For more details read my report on the usual place.

Pinpin Junior without smile.

One more thought

I also think, after hiking in the High Peaks and in the Whites last week, with the conditions are so terrible and inconsistent (from one mile to the next), that it is a bad time to judge what to wear.

I brought snowshoes in the High Peaks because they are required, but by no means was I about to put them on. How silly would that be? Sliding around, nearly killing myself on Noonmark because of the possibility of postholing. No way. Folks were doing it, and I had no idea why.

As I decended into the warmer temperatures, I postholed (occasionally!). I am guilty! Guilty mon! Ahhh, that trail had hard ice, crumbling ice, hard packed snow, softish snow, softer show, slush, water and mud. No winning on that one. So I am sorry if I created a few holes along the way. Much better than falling on my arse and busting my head open, eh? Crampons were my choice.

201 rule # 5 ??

While I always find it interesting to read about the different rules and regs and the how's and wherefores on how to walk and talk while on the trails (ok talking is still optional, I think)
I must admit I cringe every time I read of "butt sliding". Now I might check every book on hiking, mountaineering ,snowshoeing etc ...every glossary, table of contents, and what not, but I just can't seem to find a chapter on "Butt Sliding".
I can find numerous articles on Glissading and various techniques and styles there are..sitting, standing etc.
Aside from glissading as a viable mode of travel as mentioned in Mountaineering..Freedom of the Hills...I thought since much of this thread is Adirondack oriented, I would mention an older book I"ve just stumbled across "Winter Hiking and Camping" published by the Adirondack Mountain Club Inc . First copyright 1972 and the copy I have 1982. I assume this is a time before mandatory snowshoe wearing, illegal postholing, and things like that. Though I don't know what years those laws went into effect..??
( I would be curious) I do think that historically, in that region, skis won out overall and various laws were enacted to ensure that way for years to come....??
Anyway,the chapter...Travel...page 120 there is a fine picture of someone glissading down a slope. Does the heart good...every time I come across a section smoothed out and maybe iced up a bit, that I might have to struggle up, I see etched in my mind the smile of those that glissaded on down and maybe if I try real hard the sound of the laughter and joy they had doing it...!!

I did read a few years back of someone coming from NY to hike the Whites and was so conscious of the postholing she actually filled in some of the post holes she made, if I remember the story correctly.. a very sweet thing to do, but of course in these parts it would have been such a strange sight to see!! Some of the nicest things of hiking is the diversity you find out there on the trails..........

a time before mandatory snowshoe wearing, illegal postholing, and things like that. Though I don't know what years those laws went into effect..??
( I would be curious) I do think that historically, in that region, skis won out overall and various laws were enacted to ensure that way for years to come....??


I am also curious...postholing, butt-sliding, snoeshoeing, snowmobiling, skiiing...is there a hierarchy at work here? Can people snowshoeing properly hike a snowmobile trail? A "designated" skii trail? Where ARE these trails? If I butt-slide down Feldspar Brook trail (I have done so), am I committing a sin? Personally I can't imagine anyone WANTING to posthole, as it is so much work. But what ARE the RULES? I have snowshoed on part of the Northville-Placid trail and have been chastised for doing do by skiiers. Were they correct in doing so, or did I have the right to snowshoe there? Or are the rules only "prevailing common practice"? "Common courtesy," and "common sense" yes, but how is this determined"? It seems to me that "conditions" would best dictate the proper method of travel (i.e., driving 65 mph, vs. driving "too fast for conditions"). Are there similar "rules" as to when or when not to use crampons? If not, why not? I'd like to do what's "right," but I'd like to be safe as well. I'm sure that if I rode a horse down the main street of my town, I'd get a ticket, and yet I'm equally sure that was the normal mode of travel at one time.

Can anyone help me with this?

Great post Spider!!!!

And yippee, the joys of Glissading...

I see etched in my mind the smile of those that glissaded on down and maybe if I try real hard the sound of the laughter and joy they had doing it...!!

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Yes indeed, those smiles could have been me.
I fondly still own a pair of Woolrich wool knickers, they are reinforced in the rear-end...perfect glissading ware!!!! I even have fond memories of my ENTIRE family glissading down Lions Head when I was in my teens. I have PERSONAL info that yes, that even many of us over the age of 40 find this a LOT OF FUN!!!

Please, for the sake of sanity, fun and all else that is sacred in the world of the woods...I hope some of the posters on this thread will not start a NY petition to ban Glissading!!!!!!

Live free and GLISSADE!!!!!!