Fog navigating the northern Presidentials

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Shincracker

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Recently I lost my way in the fog in the area of Thunderstorm Junction. In approaching the place, the cairns were a little farther apart than they were closer to Mount Washington. When I left the Junction, I thought I was headed for Madison Hut. Before I realized it I was off the trail in the upper reaches of King Ravine in the pouring rain. This is an extremely dangerous area under these conditions. I made my way down after a lot of scrambling through the krumholz and arrived at Route 2 just after dark and never did get to Madison. Extreme Caution is advised in this area when navigating in the fog.

Shincracker
 
Glad you made it out ok.

You should see it in the winter when the snow and ice are hitting you in the face at 80 mph and visibility is about 10 feet. :D This is when a GPS and the ability to use it comes in real handy; of course...being familiar with the terrain helps as well.
 
Shincracker knows his way around the Whites all right - and just about every other summit I've ever heard of. That fog must have been positively opaque.

I hope to make it up to Madison myself sometime this Fall, in part in order to hike the King Ravine Trail (but on purpose). I'd like to combine it with the Howker RIdge trail if I can arrange a car spot.

P.S. - I much enjoyed our own little hike the other day, Shincracker.
 
NH_Mtn_Hiker said:
Glad you made it out ok.

You should see it in the winter when the snow and ice are hitting you in the face at 80 mph and visibility is about 10 feet. :D This is when a GPS and the ability to use it comes in real handy; of course...being familiar with the terrain helps as well.
Click to expand...

Or a compass - that does not have batteries that can die and that should not break if dropped!
 
Amicus said:
I hope to make it up to Madison myself sometime this Fall, in part in order to hike the King Ravine Trail (but on purpose). I'd like to combine it with the Howker RIdge trail if I can arrange a car spot.
/QUOTE]

I don't have my maps handy but I'm almost certain I made a loop from Appalachia up Howker Ridge and down the Airline...no carspots necessary. You can get to Howker from Appalachia using some of RMC's many paths. It was a pleasant walk.
-veg
Click to expand...
 
vegematic said:
Amicus said:
I hope to make it up to Madison myself sometime this Fall, in part in order to hike the King Ravine Trail (but on purpose). I'd like to combine it with the Howker RIdge trail if I can arrange a car spot.
/QUOTE]

I don't have my maps handy but I'm almost certain I made a loop from Appalachia up Howker Ridge and down the Airline...no carspots necessary. You can get to Howker from Appalachia using some of RMC's many paths. It was a pleasant walk.
-veg
Click to expand...
I PM'd Amicus and told him something like that...
You can park at Randolph East and take the Randolph Path to the Air Line and Short Line - from their you get easy access to King Ravine. Then you can go up the headwall, over Madison and down Howker Ridge to your car - no car spot necassary. It is around 10 miles and the Randolph Path section will not make the day any tougher.
Click to expand...
 
Just Curious...

Hi Shincracker,

Glad it all worked out ok for you.

I was wondering, did you try to relocated the trail using map and compass before deciding to head down into King's ravine?

Or did you decide that heading N into the ravine was a better bet than E towards the hut or back-tracking S to intersect the Gulfside trail?

Just curious about your thought process...

We can all learn from your adventure!!

Thanks,
cb
 
sapblatt said:
I PM'd Amicus and told him something like that...
You can park at Randolph East and take the Randolph Path to the Air Line and Short Line - from their you get easy access to King Ravine. Then you can go up the headwall, over Madison and down Howker Ridge to your car - no car spot necassary. It is around 10 miles and the Randolph Path section will not make the day any tougher.
Click to expand...
The initial section of the Randolph Path from the Howker Ridge TH (I guess that's Randolph East) is just awash in wild flowers in the early spring. One of the best trails to see the first blooms.
 
OK, back on topic. First off, assuming that you know where you are, map and compass still work in the fog. One way of dealing with poor visibility if you are not solo, is to "split up" and share sight distances. Lets say there are two hikers, person A and person B. You are both standing at a cairn and you need to find the next one and can't see it. A and B go forward in the desired direction (compass) only until you can still see the cairn you just left. At that point, A stays there and keeps the prior cairn in sight. B then goes forward keeping A still in sight. B does a sweep in an arc left to right until the next cairn is seen. A then joins B and both go to the next cairn. Repeat. If you can not find the next cairn then at least you can still see the previous cairn and retrace your steps.

Cairns in the Northern Presies are generally 50' apart. With 2 people, you should be able to make your way fairly well. 3 people can split the gap and overcome just about any fog imaginable. Even if visibility drops to 25', then one person solo can still make their way. The key is to never leave sight of your previous cairn until you see the next one. Take your time though. Visibility in fog generally varies as the wind blows. If you can't see, stand still and wait until you can see a little better. 5' or 10' can make a big difference sometimes.


- darren
 
darren said:
OK, back on topic. First off, assuming that you know where you are, map and compass still work in the fog. One way of dealing with poor visibility if you are not solo, is to "split up" and share sight distances. Lets say there are two hikers, person A and person B. You are both standing at a cairn and you need to find the next one and can't see it. A and B go forward in the desired direction (compass) only until you can still see the cairn you just left. At that point, A stays there and keeps the prior cairn in sight. B then goes forward keeping A still in sight. B does a sweep in an arc left to right until the next cairn is seen. A then joins B and both go to the next cairn. Repeat. If you can not find the next cairn then at least you can still see the previous cairn and retrace your steps.

Cairns in the Northern Presies are generally 50' apart. With 2 people, you should be able to make your way fairly well. 3 people can split the gap and overcome just about any fog imaginable. Even if visibility drops to 25', then one person solo can still make their way. The key is to never leave sight of your previous cairn until you see the next one. Take your time though. Visibility in fog generally varies as the wind blows. If you can't see, stand still and wait until you can see a little better. 5' or 10' can make a big difference sometimes.


- darren
Click to expand...

Great advice for a team, but what if you are solo?

-percious
 
percious said:
Great advice for a team, but what if you are solo?

-percious
Click to expand...

My last paragraph is:

Even if visibility drops to 25', then one person solo can still make their way. The key is to never leave sight of your previous cairn until you see the next one. Take your time though. Visibility in fog generally varies as the wind blows. If you can't see, stand still and wait until you can see a little better. 5' or 10' can make a big difference sometimes.
Click to expand...

If the cairns are 50' apart, and the vis is 25' you can go forward 25', make sure you can still see your last cairn and start a sweep until you see the next cairn. If the vis is less than 25' then go slow and hope it varies with the wind. The key is to not lose sight of the original cairn.

Anyone have better solo advice? Snow wands in winter? (assuming there is enough snow to hold the wand, which is not a good assumption above treeline)

- darren
 
As a frequent solo guy, IMO you have to stay off that kind of terrain when visibility is 100 feet or less since it may & can get worse. On days that may be the case I stay on trails that are harder to lose. (or can be read that I am much more familar with)

While in Summer I might be willing to bend that a little; as fall approaches & winter is coming, if you solo, you have to watch the sky & get out if it looks like conditions are going downhill.

Glad you got down okay
 
darren said:
Anyone have better solo advice?
Click to expand...
Not sure if it's better or not, but consider:

Bring a rope and tie/anchor it to Cairn A. (I know, this could be difficult). Once you get to B, tie it there and then go back to A, untie the rope, and follow it back to B. This is obviously time consuming, but it will keep you from getting off trail.

I've never heard of anyone doing this, just a thought that struck me.

If you're hiking in the winter as a group, a rope can be handy as well. The leader could go forward to find the next cairn, and then pull when it is safe for the rest to advance.
 
problem with that area

The thing I don't like about that area is there are just too many trails, it's easy to get on the wrong one, even if there is a cairn.
 
darren said:
Anyone have better solo advice? Snow wands in winter? above treeline)
Click to expand...
Dunno if it is better, but it is additional:

If you have a rope, you can tie it to a cairn and walk out to the end. (Doesn't have to be heavy--brightly colored parachute cord will do.) Or, if it is not too windy, you can drag it behind you for a bit of back-tracking capability.

Disadvantage: if you tie it to a cairn, you have to go back and untie it. (If you put the end under a rock, you might be able to just pull it.) Same problem with wands unless you carry a large supply.

Strictly speaking, anything that won't blow away can be dropped as a marker between two cairns and retrieved. Connect the dots. Slow, but effective.

On my first time up Mt Washington, the cloud line was at the top of Tuckerman Ravine. We just waited near each cairn until a short gap in the fog showed us the next cairn until we heard car engines and stepped into a parking lot.

Doug

edit: I see Tom and I have made simultaneous similar suggestions concerning the use of a rope. Slow if solo, much faster if with a partner to hold the other end. But in either case, it works.
 
Last edited:
Shincracker said:
Before I realized it I was off the trail in the upper reaches of King Ravine in the pouring rain. This is an extremely dangerous area under these conditions.
Shincracker
Click to expand...
I'd say decending the TRAIL could be dangerous in those conditions, let alone whacking down King's. Is the "Shincracker" moniker specific to this adventure ? ;) That was a nerve rattling experience for you, I'm sure. I bet Rt 2 never looked so good.

I had a near similar experience last March hiking up Algonquin in light rain/cloud bank/34 degree conditions. I lost the trail around tree-line, but just continued to head up until I re-took the trail near the summit. I think in most cases in the Northeast it's safer to head up towards a summit or ridge than down into who-knows-what.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. Glad you did okay.
 
I like darrens and doug's advie - I used to always carry cord with me for that very reason, but don't anymore up there. guess I am getting too cocky :eek:

but...it can get tricky in that area in low vis, even if you know the area fairly well.

I brought wands with me once in winter a couple years back - but didn't use them. They would come in handy on the jeff cone in winter - them cairns get buried and in low vis, it gets quite tricky after the chute.

I have lost trail on adams in winter, and the gulfside going from adams to edmunds col once too - its pretty scary actually.

can happen to anyone!
 
Chip said:
I think in most cases in the Northeast it's safer to head up towards a summit or ridge than down into who-knows-what.
Click to expand...

I think that I will respectfully disagree. Heading up adds lots more wind and lots more cold air to the equation, especially above treeline and especially on the Rockpile or a similar locale. Proceeding that way when visibility is poor (or nil), on a sketchy route, is not likely to improve one's odds, IMO.

Part of route planning is asking the "What if?" questions, e.g, what if the weather turns bad and I have to come down the same way? If the route would be unsafe as a route down, then one might decide not to do that route that day under those conditions. The alternative choice has led to lots of "misses" and "near-misses" over the years.
 
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