Military Jet Manuevers over Sandwich Dome

Has anyone else seen these military jet maneuvers?

We were on the summit of Sandwich Dome on Tuesday morning 9/5
& 2 jets were flying intricate maneuvers with each other.

Actually, it was pretty amazing to witness some of their moves.
Very exact & precise!

Later on, we were about an hour down the Sandwich Mt Trail when one of the jets buzzed the tree tops.
It was so near & loud that it took our breath away
& it felt like the whole forest shook.
We could actually feel the breeze from the jet as it raced by

It was so close to the tree tops that if we were on the summit @ that time we would've been looking DOWN on them...

Does anyone know where these jets are from
Is this the NH National Guard?

We've only experience this one other time, it was right after 9/11/2001
we were on Mt Perceival & the maneuvers were being performed over Squam Lake.

They were probably A-10s from RI or MA. It's quite common to see them over the Whites. NH ANG doesn't field fighters.

If they were loud and fast they probably weren't A-10's. I saw F-16's flying over the Pemi about a week ago.

If you saw F-16's, they were probably from either the 158th Fighter Wing from the Vermont Air Guard or the 174th Fighter Wing from the New York Air Guard.

If they were F-15's, they could be from the 102nd Fighter Wing of the Massachusetts Air Guard.

New Hampshire and Maine fly KC-135's, a military version of the Boeing 707.

The Rhode Island Air Guard flys the C-130.

F-16's will be flying out of Pease for the next 5 or 6 weeks. The runway in Burlington that they use is undergoing repair. Saw five of them takeoff this morning one right after another - probably less than 15 seconds inbetween. (As a reference, commercial airliners usually take off in 2 minute 30 second or so intervals.) It was pretty impressive.

Last year on Flags on the 48, an A-10 buzzed the summits of Lafayette, Lincoln, Liberty and Flume (and others as well).. It got so close to us on Lincoln that we could see the pilot in the cockpit.

They were a-10's i was up on techumcha that morning and could hear them the whole way up. Nice to see but too loud.

pocahontas said:

Has anyone else seen these military jet maneuvers?

We were on the summit of Sandwich Dome....

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I see, hear, and experience them up close and personal all the time. I live pretty close to the Sandwich Range.

The first time I got buzzed in the woods (going up the Smarts Brook trail towards Sandwich Dome no less), it scared the crap out of me. Didn't know what it was. Then, they buzzed my house. I was completely ticked off -- I had moved to the Whites to get away from jet noise, having lived on a flight path to Logan most of my life.

Eventually, I just got used to them. Getting buzzed became part of the life in the Whites, including a few up close and personals, like waving to a pilot from the summit of West Bond.

pocahontas said:

We've only experience this one other time, it was right after 9/11/2001....

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The ironic thing about our friends the jet jockeys -- we didn't see them for days after 9/11. The skies were eerily silent. Obviously, all training exercises were cancelled when the country went on full scale alert. When they finally reappeared (four days later?), I went out to watch them pass over. I had missed them.

And, for what it's worth, I was told by someone who supposedly knows what they're talking about that it's usually A-10's practicing terrain (?) maneuvers around here.

A fantastic A-10 pic from a summit by VFTT's own Jenifer.

Last year in the Pemi we were buzzed by a pair of A-10's screaming thru the gap N of Carrigain. I called the WMNF to complain, and finally got a hold of the aviation officer, but it didn't get anywhere. The Pemi is designated wilderness but the airspace overhead is still fair game, wilderness or not. It's not a designated MOA (military area of operation). But all the flyboys have to do is file a NOTAM and give civilian air authorities a heads up. Still, minimum ceilings should apply, which is why I complained. They have to maintain 1000ft above any surface, mountain or obstruction to flight. Or do they? Maybe they have carte blanche these days to bust regs as they see fit. Nonetheless, I complained. Loudly. We all should. Wilderness is fragile and we’re not legitimately at war (except perhaps with our lesser selves). Let em go to Crawford Tx if they need to practice. Yeah. We all know how shaky our global air superiority is these days.

caleb said:

Still, minimum ceilings should apply, which is why I complained. They have to maintain 1000ft above any surface, mountain or obstruction to flight. Or do they?

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My understanding is that they have to maintain 1000ft above populated areas. The Whites do not qualify.

They are practicing sneaking up on targets by hiding behind the terrain. The A10 is a very successful tank killer.

I have frequenly seen them practicing (over the southern Whites) from the ski lifts at Tenny Mtn. Dropping flares, etc.

I have also seen A10s or F16s flying up a valley in the DAKs and have frequently seen them in the Lake George area.

MIchaelJ/Jenifer: nice pic. Pulling some G's.

Doug

caleb said:

Still, minimum ceilings should apply, which is why I complained. They have to maintain 1000ft above any surface, mountain or obstruction to flight. Or do they? Maybe they have carte blanche these days to bust regs as they see fit. Nonetheless, I complained. Loudly. We all should. Wilderness is fragile and we’re not legitimately at war (except perhaps with our lesser selves). Let em go to Crawford Tx if they need to practice. Yeah. We all know how shaky our global air superiority is these days.

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No they don't have to stay 1000 feet above terrain. They are allowed to get below 1000' for training. For A-10s it’s a requirement when training. I miss seeing them. I used to see them do strikes, on tanks, when I was acting as forward observer for my platoon, when in our field training areas in Germany. They are without a doubt one of the most graceful aircraft in the world when flown by skilled pilots. Also, I know what they do for the infantry. I used to see A-10s F-16s F-15s F105s and even saw a SR71 once. I do miss it.

Also A-10's are not an air superiority fighter. It is a ground attack aircraft. It uses its 30mm cannon and also uses bombs and the Maverick missile for ground attack. It was orginally designed primarily to kill tanks but has been modifed to do more ground attack roles since the collapse of the Warsaw block. It never flies high in battle. It is extremely rugged and well designed and can take loads of abuse in the form of ground fire and is a relatively inexpensive aircraft.

As far as complaining about the noise, feel free.

Keith

No Politics

Anyone not familiar with the Site Rules should read them. No politics are allowed on this board.

Normally I would delete everything from Caleb's post on down, but the question of what kind of jets are these and what are they doing comes up very often and there is some good info here. Who they are, type of jets, what they are doing, why they can do it, etc. So I will leave it for now.

I am, however, stating "no more politics".

- darren

I live in Holderness Central NH. Three A-10's turned sharply directly over my backyard in which I was standing, six or seven years ago and they must have been no more than 100 hundred feet up. I could see every feature on the pilots helmits. I see them a few times a year, and find them very interesting.

SAR-EMT40 said:

No they don't have to stay 1000 feet above terrain. They are allowed to get below 1000' for training. For A-10s it’s a requirement when training. I miss seeing them. I used to see them do strikes, on tanks, when I was acting as forward observer for my platoon, when in our field training areas in Germany. They are without a doubt one of the most graceful aircraft in the world when flown by skilled pilots. Also, I know what they do for the infantry. I used to see A-10s F-16s F-15s F105s and even saw a SR71 once. I do miss it.

Also A-10's are not an air superiority fighter. It is a ground attack aircraft. It uses its 30mm cannon and also uses bombs and the Maverick missile for ground attack. It was orginally designed primarily to kill tanks but has been modifed to do more ground attack roles since the collapse of the Warsaw block. It never flies high in battle. It is extremely rugged and well designed and can take loads of abuse in the form of ground fire and is a relatively inexpensive aircraft.

As far as complaining about the noise, feel free.

Keith

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Thanks for all that great information on the A-10's. Living in Waterville Valley I see them all them time --sometimes real low, passing through the hills. One day, skiing on the hill I heard a loud noise and thought it was someone right on my heels, but when I stopped to turn around and see who would boldly ski so close to me, I realized it was the A-10's practicing. They are someetimes so close you can see the pilot. I always give a great big wave showing my support.

Great pic!!

Have seen them across both the Whites and through the ADKs, but have also seen the F15s.

As a hiker, I give them a pass: they're too cool.

We used to work with A-10's a bit (former military Air traffic control) and SAR-EMT40 has it right on. Depending on the training area, they can fly nap of the earth ("NOE"). Usually in unpopulated or very lightly populated areas. We used to call them Warthogs or Sky Sleds, but the proper name is the A-10 Thunderbolt.

You have this plane that looks awkward,with these huge long wings and gigantic twin turbines - however the long wings allow it to fly very slowly, almost as if floating as it circles in valleys and comes in low over ridges. Then the twin turbines kick in to get it out and over the next hill where it can hide again.
They have always been one of my favorite jets .... Hmmmm. Big, ungainly, slow moving, awkward looking... I wonder why...

Anyways, I still get a chill up my spine, a smile on my face and find my arm waving hello whenever I see them.

I had heard that the Air Force had talked of getting rid of them a few years ago, and the Army stepped in and said that they would take them - From what I heard the AF then recanted and decided to keep them.

File photo

I see A-10s regularly - I beleive they may be out of Brunswick, ME. Have also seen the F-16s Little Bear mentioned in the Rye area recently.

They certainly did not (or have to) maintain 1000 feet over last 9/11...I could see the pilot's nose while a top Liberty - he was at the height of the mountain less than 100 yards from the summit. Very cool.

I frequently see both A-10s and F-16s flying low level (literally at tree-top level) over the Adirondacks and also over the "lesser wilderness" of Tug Hill to the west. They always fly in pairs, so if you see one watch out for the surprise from #2. It's always a joy to see them skillfully practicing their best, preparing for the worst. When I flew navigation training legs in the KC-135 I had considerable freedom of where to plan the training route. I would chose to fly and make my turn points over the Adirondacks whenever I could to remind me of home. Of course we were always at high altitude in that beast so from the ground we looked and sounded like any regular passenger airliner.

Other sounds... Anywhere in the NW quadrant of the Adks you can also frequently hear what you would swear is thunder coming from the NW direction. Don't run for cover, it's not thunder (not usually anyway), rather it's artillery and cannon from Fort Drum pounding away, easily heard 30 or 40 miles distant.

The first time I saw the A-10’s (Apr '99) we were standing on the summit of Lafayette gazing into the Pemi. When the low drone we were hearing turned into a roar, we turned our heads and there they were; coming straight up Franconia Ridge right at us. They were not 1000 feet above the ridge. The first one banked sharply, showed us the underside of the wings, and executed a graceful but tight arc around Garfield and the Twins and headed back out over the Bonds. The second one, which was hidden from sight until the first one banked, followed suit and they both completed the Pemi Loop in about a minute.

I’ve been playing golf at the Owl’s Head course in Campton while a couple of the A-10’s buzzed the golfers for about ten minutes. We could plainly make out the pilots in the cockpits and again, they did not appear to be 1000 feet off the deck.

JohnL

SAR-EMT40 said:

As far as complaining about the noise, feel free.

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The unusual tail configuration (the way it is wrapped around the engine) is designed, in part, to suppress the noise.

Doug

Rick said:

Anyways, I still get a chill up my spine, a smile on my face and find my arm waving hello whenever I see them.

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Ditto. Often I have had the pilot respond with a wing wag. I "caught" one coming up the valley once and he knew I caught him. He acknowledged my wave with a wing wag then performed evasive maneuvers and popped flares near Whitewall mountain. One my fondest memories in the Whites.

Rick said:

I had heard that the Air Force had talked of getting rid of them a few years ago, and the Army stepped in and said that they would take them - From what I heard the AF then recanted and decided to keep them.

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The Air Force has always hated the A-10. It doesn't fit in with the image that they like to portray. They want to be going at 1000 Mph at 80000 feet with their ass on fire as they like to say. The low and slow in the dirt type of flying that the A10's do have never sat well with the Air Force. It was an Army requirement that brought them into being. Like I said, first and foremost their original job was to kill tanks that we were outnumbered by 3.5 to 1 by the Warsaw pact countries who were going to flood them through the narrow area at Fulda Gap. Until the advent of the Apache the infantry had to destroy tanks with our TOW missiles of which I was in charge of back in the day. The TOW was and is a very good missile but unlike the Maverick and the latter Hellfire that the A-10 and Apache use they they are much, much slower then either and can engage at 5 or more times the distance. They also use laser, camera or radar tracking instead of the optical tracking of the TOW. They also mounted the TOW on the older Cobra helicopters and I believe the Sea Cobras (Marine) still use them.

Once the threat from the Soviet block disappeared the mission changed to bunkers, strongholds, and enemy infantry. Great picture Rick. You get a good view of the cannon as well as some sidewinders on the outboard port pylon for self protection. I think I see at least one Maverick and some other ordinance that I admit, I don't recognize. They might be Hellfire missiles. I have been out for a while now.

When I said rugged and well designed this is what I meant. If you look at Rick's picture. The engines, unmistakable whining GE turbofans, are interchangeable on the left and right as well as the mounts. The way they are mounted the IR signature goes over the rear stabilizer helping to dissipate it. Even if a missile hits the engine it is designed to allow the aircraft to fly back with minimum damage as it is mounted "outside" the aircraft, not deep inside. The pilot sits in a titanium bathtub for his protection. As far as maintenance, the entire rear horizontal and vertical stabilizer is the same left to right. My understanding is that components of the main wing also have parts that are interchangeable left to right as well so only half the numbers of parts need be stored for major sections.


Keith