Exp. Weight Long johns Question

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hikingfish

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Hi All,
It's that time again...I'm getting snow fever. I'm planning on going to the MEC tonight and perhaps buy some long johns. I already own a pair of capilene light-weights and they are AMAZING...a bit on the expensive side, but well worth the price.

My choice is going to be between either capilene expedition weight long johns (fairly $$$, but I know they are uber comfortable) or MEC exp. weight long johns (better $$$, but not as comfy). I was debating if going with Merinos wool might be a good choice? Has anyone purchased a pair of long johns made of merinos wool? Any impressions? They are apparently very comfortable, don't keep odors, but are a bit pricy.

So far, I have to say that enough though Capilene 4 tops/bottoms are twice as expensive, I'm very tempted to purchase them, because I'm just so comfortable in my lightweight versions.

Thanks for any input!

Fish
 
Just a comment on expedition weight long underwear--Many (most) find it too hot.

I use the lightest weight long underwear so I can dissapate heat. The only use that I have had for the heavy-weight is lift-served skiing. Might also be useful for sleeping. If I bring a heavy-weight top, I treat it as a sweater. (Again, I've only used it lift-served skiing.)

Doug
 
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I'll double up on Doug's comments. Expedition weight long johns would be way too warm for hiking, IMHO. Sleeping or perhaps ice fishing would be my only uses for them.

JohnL
 
I picked up a pair of IBEX Approach tights last winter as an expedition weight baselayer and they're great. They've been upgraded a little this year with the addition of nylon and are now called Energy Tights.

I also can recommend their Roaster Boxers.

jfb
Who donated all his Capilene to Goodwill.

Edit: I see that MEC now sells Patagonia baselayers and that Patagonia now sells wool baselayers. Checking the Patagonia website, I found that a pair of bottoms made with their heaviest fabric (wool 4) weighs 8 oz. That's the same as a pair of Smartwool lightweight bottoms. In contrast, the Ibex Approach pants weigh 16 oz., making them more of an expedition weight baselayer.
 
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Hi Guys,
Maybe I should of said the intended use for my eventual purchase. I prefer long johns to a sweater because they usually take a lot less space. I would buy exp. weight for "in camp" use or as bedwear. Using my light-weight capilene for the actual hike and use the exp. weight once I get to camp (esp. for winter camping).

Fish
 
hikingfish said:
Maybe I should of said the intended use for my eventual purchase. I prefer long johns to a sweater because they usually take a lot less space. I would buy exp. weight for "in camp" use or as bedwear. Using my light-weight capilene for the actual hike and use the exp. weight once I get to camp (esp. for winter camping).
OK.

My REI expedition long underwear (top and bottoms, made from 100 wt fleece) are nice and warm. Got them on sale last winter. (I mostly use them around the house so I can set the thermostat a bit lower...)

For camping/emergencies, I have a set of side-zip (200 wt?) fleece pants. Much easier to put on over my existing gear than to try to slip under. Above the waist, I just wear 2 fleece jackets and a shell. And if needed, I pull out a down jacket.

Doug
 
hikingfish said:
Hi Guys,
Maybe I should of said the intended use for my eventual purchase. I prefer long johns to a sweater because they usually take a lot less space. I would buy exp. weight for "in camp" use or as bedwear. Using my light-weight capilene for the actual hike and use the exp. weight once I get to camp (esp. for winter camping).

Fish

I may be wrong, but I think you're saying you want to remove your lightweight top and put on an expedition weight top when you get to camp. In that case, I don't think it makes much difference what brand you buy.
 
hikingfish said:
Hi Guys,
Maybe I should of said the intended use for my eventual purchase. I prefer long johns to a sweater because they usually take a lot less space. I would buy exp. weight for "in camp" use or as bedwear. Using my light-weight capilene for the actual hike and use the exp. weight once I get to camp (esp. for winter camping).

Fish

instead of expedition weight why not pickup of pair of the MEC Magma Pants for camp? they're more expensive but far warmer, even with wet, they layer very well, and weight about the same.
 
deadpoint said:
instead of expedition weight why not pickup of pair of the MEC Magma Pants for camp? they're more expensive but far warmer, even with wet, they layer very well, and weight about the same.

Magma pants are pretty expensive versus MEC brand long johns. I also didn't mention that I do have big fleece (200 wt I believe) pants.

I guess I basically just want to switch into something dry that will keep me warm even though I'm stopping the "active" phase of my trip.

I tried a Merinos Wool shirt (mid-weight) at the MEC yesterday. Wasn't that impressed with it, but then again, I only had 2 minutes to try it on as the store was closing!

Fish
 
hikingfish said:
I guess I basically just want to switch into something dry that will keep me warm even though I'm stopping the "active" phase of my trip.
I can generally keep my clothing relatively dry on cool non-rainy days by appropriate thermal and clothing managment. So far, I've never felt the need to change into something dry upon reaching camp. (I do typically have something available. My heat also stays up for a good while after stopping--many seem to cool off much faster.) The colder it is, the easier it is for me to keep dry.

Obviously, YMMV and the situation is different on a rainy day or if you have gone "swimming"...

Doug
 
hikingfish said:
I guess I basically just want to switch into something dry that will keep me warm even though I'm stopping the "active" phase of my trip.

If you were to use a pair of lightweight Merino wool long johns while hiking, there would be no reason to change into anything else. They might be a little damp after the active phase was over, but would still keep you warm while drying.

Also, you really can't judge how Merino wool performs by wearing it in a store (except to check that it fits). Try buying a shirt and wear it everyday, in a variety of weather, for a week. Then do the same with a Capilene shirt the following week.
 
jfb said:
If you were to use a pair of lightweight Merino wool long johns while hiking, there would be no reason to change into anything else. They might be a little damp after the active phase was over, but would still keep you warm while drying.
I have a set of lightweight Merino wool long johns (30 yr old Stil-Longs), and IMO, they would soak up more moisture than polyester if you are running warm on an otherwise cool dry day. Polyester simply does not absorb water into the fiber and will pass it along faster and store less. On the other hand, if it is a cold and rainy day where everything will get damp/wet, I'd prefer the wool. (Actually, I think polyester or wool long johns over wool fishnet would be even better--keeps the wet fabric off your skin.)

My wool long johns are far from the newest and the properties of wool can be altered by treatments during manufacturing. It is possible that the newer wool long johns will perform differently.

Also, you really can't judge how Merino wool performs by wearing it in a store (except to check that it fits). Try buying a shirt and wear it everyday, in a variety of weather, for a week. Then do the same with a Capilene shirt the following week.
A worthwhile experiment, unless the store features "full conditions"... :)

Also, having both sets up new layering possibilites. Under certain conditions (ice climbing near the road*, or humid conditions such as cool weather sailing) the wool long johns over the polyester made a nice combo. Otherwise, this is generally too warm for hiking.

* Ice climbing far from the road requires that you survive the hike in and out. So I would wear less when climbing in Huntington Ravine than when climbing at Frankenstein (close to Rte 302 below Crawford Notch).

Doug
 
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DougPaul said:
IMO, they would soak up more moisture than polyester if you are running warm on an otherwise cool dry day. Polyester simply does not absorb water into the fiber and will pass it along faster and store less.

Let me just respond by stating that the best way to compare the two would be to try them in the field in a variety of conditions, not merely regurgitate data that was developed in a laboratory environment.
 
jfb said:
Let me just respond by stating that the best way to compare the two would be to try them in the field in a variety of conditions, not merely regurgitate data that was developed in a laboratory environment.
And let me respond by stating that is my experience.

Doug
 
DougPaul said:
And let me respond by stating that is my experience.

Doug

And I used to believe the same things you did until I tried something new. And I was pleased when I learned something I didn't know before.
 
jfb said:
And I used to believe the same things you did until I tried something new. And I was pleased when I learned something I didn't know before.
If you disagree with what someone else says, produce some evidence. "Smart" remarks denigrating other's expertise are inappropriate and counterproductive.

I have owned merino wool long johns for 30 years. I have some experience with them, as well as cotton fishnet, wool fishnet, wool, polypropoline, and polyester. Others may have experience with other materials.

Individuals respond differently to exercise in the cold and opinions can differ. There is more than one good way of dealing with this problem and reasonable people can disagree which is best without being disrespectful.

Doug
 
I have one set of all 3 weights and this is typically how it works out:

Lightweights: I like REI ones, nice and light and they tent to work good for prety low cost. Use these on cold but not that cold days - fall, spring, warmer winter days. I also use these in summer cascade mountain climbs

Midweights, I have a set of the EMS bergelene ones - I love the thumbholes on these and they work good - pretty much use them all winter and on colder fall/spring days.

Heavyweights-(northface bottoms, ems top) kind bought them by accident, b/c found out the hard way, they are way to warm for anything - even in below zero temps. Like doug, etc.. mentions earlier. They are good for at camp, sleeping, etc.. and work well as light fleece for say - a fall weekend like this one coming up - for at camp. anyone who hikes in these has no body fat at all - maybe frodo or stinkyfeet uses these ;) ;) ;) :p
 
jfb said:
Let me just respond by stating that the best way to compare the two would be to try them in the field in a variety of conditions, not merely regurgitate data that was developed in a laboratory environment.

I couldn't agree more. However I only want to purchase one of the two options available to me. This is why I'm asking the members of this board to relate their personal experience.

Fish
 
hikingfish said:
I couldn't agree more. However I only want to purchase one of the two options available to me. This is why I'm asking the members of this board to relate their personal experience.

Fish

To help you make up your mind, refer to the Smartwool website which has lots of information that describes why wool outperforms synthetics in the field.
 
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