Soft Shell Uses

There have been a lot of advances in hiking gear in the past couple of years. I was wondering what people thought of Soft Shell and when to use it. It seems like in the old days we used totally waterproof materials and tried to keep from getting wet in the first place. However my philosophy seemed to change on a backpack in the Adirondacks when it was absolutely impossible to stay dry. We were wading through waist deep water (flooded streams) in late October with huge rainfall and the waterproofs basically turned into a wet suit. Actually they held the water in and seemed to make things worse. I've recently gotten into wearing soft shell like the Arcteryx Gamma and the Cloudveil Switchback. These materials seem to let the water in and out easily. They dry quickly and I find I'm more comfortable even when they're completely soaked.

I was wondering what other people thought. Seems like there is no such thing as waterproof on incredibly wet days. Is the soft shell material actually more useful than the so called waterproof stuff like Goretex?
Thanks

I absolutely adore (and I use Adore with the staunchest record of masculinity) my Soft-shell pants. It was like 50 times better than the first transition from rubber rain pants to Goretex pants.
SS's breathe much nicer than any Goretex I have ever owned and are great for cold days. I like that they stretch a bit as well.
I do think that as materials get better we also push the limits of the type of weather we will do stuff in (or perhaps do "sustained stuff" in).
I have noticed that in light rain, water rolls off, but over time. if any wetness starts to soak in, my body heat allows the material to dry/vaporize rather quickly - try that with Goretex.

My experience with softshells is limited to the Marmot Driclime, and using a Light DWR shell over microfleece. Both work well, but, they are no replacement in my opinion for a W/B shell when dealing with heavy wind driven COLD rain. At these times, a realitivly light W/B shell (like Frog Toggs / Propore / or Precip) worn over the 'softshell' is essential in my opinion.
I've given up on keeping dry. I'm looking to be warm-wet without loosing core.

Onestep

Great for skiing. Sheds snow, and since it's such an aerobic activity you need a lot of breathability. Plus, it moves well vs. a clunky jacket & pants.

since buying the softshell, I don't use the goretex too much anymore in winter unless really cold and windy. I do use the gore-tex in summer spring rain cuz, its nowhere near as good as repelling rain for extended periods. but then again as you say - nothing is....

I love the soft shell I have the loki myth jacket.

Hey Mike, how's things? What did you guys do Sunday? We got up to Burnt Knob, and walked almost all the way around before we realized the trail does not go to the summit!

Anyway, I agree with you, there really is no such thing as waterproof clothing, at least when you are exerting yourself a lot. You either get wet from the inside or the outside, take your pick! The best you can do IMHO, is bring extra dry layers.

Not really sure what a 'softshell' is, but for YEARS, I've been subscribing to the philosophy that keeping warm is more important than keeping dry. I always wear pourous material that allows water in yet keeps me dry. This material dries quickly as well. I have no idea what material it is, since I'v had this for at least 10 years, and the labesl have all worn off.

I love my Marmot Mercury and wear it often. But, when it gets nasty out, the XCR shell comes out.

In researching 'soft shells', I found this:
http://marmot.com/technology/tech/tech_softshell.php

Our definition of Softshell are garments made from fabrics with the 6 following characteristics in varying degrees.
• Durability - Abrasion resistance
• Stretch comfort fit
• Breathability - Moisture Vapor Transmission
• Wind resistance - Air permeability
• Water resistance
• Thermal Protection

Click to expand...

Does anybody disagree with this?

They offer 3 fabrics, M1, M2, and M3. M2 looks like the most useful to me, a winter XC skier, cyclist, and maybe hiker...

M1 - Colder, wetter conditions with lower or intermittent aerobic output
1. Water resistance
2. Wind resistance
3. Thermal protection
4. Breathability
5. Durability
6. Stretch

M2 - Moderate to cold conditions, drier and more moderate aerobic output
1. Wind Resistance
2. Breathability
3. Water Resistance
4. Thermal Protection
5. Durability
6. Stretch

M3 - Warmer, drier conditions, higher aerobic output
1. Breathability
2. Durability
3. Stretch
4. Wind Resistance
5. Water Resistance
6. Thermal Protection

Click to expand...

But they claim

No M2 Softshell in Spring 06 line.

Click to expand...

I guess everything is relative, but that they mention "warmer" in the M3 makes me think of conditions other then winter in NH. M1 is clearly the least interesting.

There was another whole thread on this quite recently... not sure how to link to it.

Tim

I like my softshell (TNF Apex) mostly because it's abrasion resistant, breathes well for most activities and repels enough water on most wet situations.

I do have a Gore-tex shell and do use it in the winter for really nasty days-If I'm hot I prefer to don the shell and go light on the insulation layers.

But I use my softshell year round for tons of things - rock climbing, ice climbing, fall outer layer (too heavy for Summer use), and just wearing around town. I really use it a lot and would really miss it if I were to not have it

I love my Cloudveil softshells, the fabric is made by Shoeller, great stuff! More breathable than anything else I've ever had. http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/

Pete_Hickey said:

Not really sure what a 'softshell' is, but for YEARS, I've been subscribing to the philosophy that keeping warm is more important than keeping dry. I always wear pourous material that allows water in yet keeps me dry. This material dries quickly as well. I have no idea what material it is, since I'v had this for at least 10 years, and the labesl have all worn off.

Click to expand...

I'm an advocate of this as well, but more for summer. I've never fought the rain, just let it seep in and change later when I've reached camp or the car. It's why I still wear cotton T-shirts in the summer.

I used my soft shell last winter on very cold day under my Goretex XCR.
Long sleve polyester underware,fleece vest,soft shell, goretex xcr and with
all of those clothes you are able to past 15 hours outside in minus 0 F
the only thing is went you stop it became cold.

I had posted in a previous thread regarding the usefulness of soft shells. But after several different makes I found one on clearance (discontinued color which I love). Not all soft shells are created equal – this has a nice fleece inner, pit zips and comfortable fit, not too heavy but not too light. I used it all last winter in temps well below freezing. I found I was able to keep it on longer without heating up and it made for a nice single choice rather than a usual fleece and shell that I would previously have carried for the conditions I expected.

I also agree with a previous poster (dug) that it sheds the snow either falling from the sky, falling into or brushing against trees whereas the fleece alone would hold it and I’d have to keep brushing it off before it melted.

It held up quite well while bushwhacking or trailwork and still looks like new.

The biggest test came in the rain - but this wasn’t on the trail but rather riding a motorcycle. It made for a nice wind jacket on the bike but we were caught in a downpour that lasted over a half hour. Add 40-50 mph to driving rain. I was only wet through at the front of the elbow joint and the whole jacket quickly dried out when the sunshine returned.

I have dramtically enjoyed fall/early winter hikes more since obtaining softshell jackets and pants. I typically wear them over thin to medium fleece such as Malden Mills Power Dry.

The majority of my hikes are never in the rain, so I am willing to sacrfice water proof for better breathability and stretch. If I were concerned with wet conditions, I would also carry something lighter than Goretex, my marmot precip jacket.

My softshell items are very stretchable as well. They do provide warmth and can layered as well.

IMO, softshell was not just a marketing fad but an ability to dress more comfortably when full WB material is not required.

Soft Shells

22 days on Mckinley in various weather conditions, always with soft shell as a mid layer, Gortex on top for the rough stuff.
I was raised in hard shell school, now I cant imagine leaving for a climb, hike without the soft shell (Mountain Hardware Alchemy) series in the pack.

Science is amazing isn it!

SABERG