Everest: Beyond the Limit. Discussion Note ***WITH SPOILERS***

I propose yet another thread on this series for free discussion of the show.

NOTE THAT THIS THREAD MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS and if you've taped it / TiVo'd it / etc., you may not want to read this thread until after you've watched it.

Tim
(now I'm off to watch it!)

I'm already a little disappointed with this show. It seems to be coming off as Survivor Does Everest. Tho, if it were, they’d at least have found one chick, hot or not.

As for the Survivor factor, here’s already too much obvious editing: a few quick tears for the death of a Sherpa (how to trivialize a human in one easy step); an obvious ploy to degrade every other team on the mountain (oh, there’s only one doctor there?); and too much b.s. behind the few personal moments revealed thus far (and don’t we now know who’ll be “voted off the island” first).

I was hoping for an in-depth look at what makes a climber on Everest (or any where else, for that matter.) This show isn’t going to go there.

Periwinkle said:

I'm already a little disappointed with this show. It seems to be coming off as Survivor Does Everest. Tho, if it were, they’d at least have found one chick, hot or not.

As for the Survivor factor, here’s already too much obvious editing: a few quick tears for the death of a Sherpa (how to trivialize a human in one easy step); an obvious ploy to degrade every other team on the mountain (oh, there’s only one doctor there?); and too much b.s. behind the few personal moments revealed thus far (and don’t we now know who’ll be “voted off the island” first).

I was hoping for an in-depth look at what makes a climber on Everest (or any where else, for that matter.) This show isn’t going to go there.

Click to expand...

This is about a bunch of weekend warriors who want to climb Everest. There are very few professional climbers in the first episode anyway. Maybe a few 'warriors' will stay home now that they have seen what it's like up there.

And if I'm not mistaken, a sherpa ascended 2000' in 45 minutes to bring someone a bottle of oxygen!

This show cannot hope to genuinely appeal to mountaineers (or serious hikers, ...i.e., us) and to the general population (those who will watch and spend money on the advertiser's products) at the same time. Just like the Olympics are not targeted at sports fans, this show is not targeted at mountaineers.

It looks like some 6'5" dude named Tim will be first to go. I'm only 6'3" Seems the qualifications are: $40K.

I found the Columbia commercials fairly funny, first time through any way.

On a technical note, I thought the camera work was pretty good given the conditions. My favorite Discovery Show (Deadliest Catch) had a brief segment once on the technical issues of keeping 24 Sony DV cameras operating in the cold and wet conditions of the Bering Sea. At least these guys don't have the wet.

My prior experience with Everest includes reading "Into Thin Air", and watching the related PBS specials (David Brashears), and I saw the iMAX film made that year.

Tim

Ugly stuff

If nothing else this show provides a view of the awful consequences of the commercialization of climbing Everest. Lost lives, degradation of the environment, nothing is important, except the money.

I pretty much agree with Periwinkle and Tom's initial comments. Somewhat disappointing so far. The editing and narration are all signaling the viewer to feel very excited, but meanwhile they're talking about what a crampon is and how it's dangerous to one's health being at 23,000 feet. Definitely directed at folks who don't know even the simplest basic facts about mountaineering, surely not the crowd on this site. And of course there's the endless commercial breaks. Now, after whinging about all of this, I'll just say that this is entirely predictable since it is after all commercial television. Production values aside, the subject matter and of course just the footage of the place itself kept me watching, and I will probably stay with the series.

Edit: DMS was writing his comment at the same time I was posting this, and now having read it, I'd like to strongly agree. I think what he has articulated there is really the message of this thing.

Matt

Agreed on all points. My first feeling was, "oh, this is reality TV", but then I realized it was commercial TV, and so it has to be. But, regardless of that, just seeing the footage is worth the price of admission (getting through the commercials and the unnecessary drama). The camera work is terrific. I hope one of the shows, or a followup is focused on the "making of".

Adding on to the comment about the commercialization of Everest, other then the death of the sherpa and a few other moments, you would hardly know they were there. There is absolutely no coverage of how all those camps got set up. While we get tons of coverage and explanation of the affects and challanges of oxygen deprivation on the contestants (oops, I mean climbers), there is very little of the logistics. The contestants (climbers) carry nothing (except basic necessities, and even then, only on the push up to the North Col). They "suffer" through hiking through the thin air to arrive at fully equipped camps. They cross crevasses on fixed ladders with fixed ropes. The ascend fixed rope lines. And there is NO commentary about the work involved in setting that up, or about how easy these folks have it compared to true alpinists (of which I do not claim to be).

That said, I will be tuned right back in next Tuesday night!

keb said:

They "suffer" through hiking through the thin air to arrive at fully equipped camps. They cross crevasses on fixed ladders with fixed ropes. The ascend fixed rope lines. And there is NO commentary about the work involved in setting that up, or about how easy these folks have it compared to true alpinists (of which I do not claim to be).

That said, I will be tuned right back in next Tuesday night!

Click to expand...

I think we will see that as they go higher there is less and less fixed protection, and less and less of the ready made camps.

And, no, I doubt I will be watching...

I knew there would be a thread like this -

I disagree with most here - It was decent stuff, worth watching There isn't too much that I have seen on camera on the north col route. I enjoyed the program. The show is geared towards the general public.

Maybe I missed something, but how do we know the experience level of these people?? - how do we know what they have done in other mountain ranges?


RUSSELL BRICE: experienced
Russell Brice leads expeditions for his company, Himalayan Experience, and has 25 years of experience on Everest.

Max Chaya is an experienced climber who, by early 2006, had climbed the highest peak on every continent and both poles except Everest.

MARK INGLIS
New Zealand's Mark Inglis is attempting to become the first double amputee to summit Everest. In 1982, he spent 14 days trapped by a storm on New Zealand's highest peak, Mount Cook.

Mogens (pronounced like "bones") Jensen is a former elite athlete and Iron Man competitor. Mogens is a schoolteacher turned professional mountaineer from Denmark

Brett Merrell This marks Brett's second Everest summit attempt;

Terry O'Connor is an emergency room doctor and high-altitude sickness expert from Portland, Ore.

the only one that is a question mark is the motorcyle guy Tim - and how do we know he hasn't developed his skills in the high seirra's, cascades, alps, etc..

I just looked at the crew - I see most have climbing experience in new zeland as well as high peaks in south america.

sit back, grab a beer and enjoy the show -

The web site says "Tim showed up with a big bag of cash"

From Discovery Web Site

the producers on the Discovery Web Site said:

A fun-loving risk taker who designs Harley-Davidson motorcycles in Hollywood, Calif., Tim Medvetz was a last-minute addition to the expedition, having arrived in Kathmandu with cash for his climbing fee in a sack. Tim's considerable stature (he stands 6'5") puts him at a decided disadvantage for a mountaineer, as do the metal plates and pins that hold his spine, ankle and part of his skull together — the result of a near-fatal bike crash.

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The Discovery Channel generally puts things like "making of" on the web site, as "Webisodes", so watch there if you're interested in that kind of thing.

So far, I'm most impressed with the doctor, Terry O'Connor. Might be the editing, of course. Kudos to the producers for capturing enough footage to be able to edit heavily.

Tim

I was so excited about this show and I was so impressed with it that I fell sound asleep after just 15".
I did record it but don't hold out much hope for it.

giggy, I'm with you on this one.

First, the show never claimed to be about mountaineering, right from the start they advertised "amateurs climbing Everest." And that's pretty much what it is. Money can buy you just about everything, so why should climbing a big mountain be any different?

I think some of you are being awfully hard on these guys. I'm pretty sure I couldn't survive a day at 23,000 feet, so my hat's off to them already. They may not be climbing the mountain in the alpinist style that is "better" than this adventure tour style, but they sure are enduring some brutal punishment on their bodies. Not everyone is able to dedicate their lives to mountaineering, this is probably the best shot these folks have to summit Everest. Even some of the pros use established basecamps and logistical support and whatnot. There are huts in the Whites, for crying out loud, at a measly 4000 feet.

I just think it's unfortunate that so many people die up there, so I hope these guys understand the risks. I also hope Tim does get "voted off" otherwise he'll probably need a rescue. I think there are some lessons to be learned from the show and if you can look past the commercialization and dramatic narration then it's not half bad.

And I'll definitely show some clips to my bio students

By the way, if you want to read about a more self-supported climber, read Ed Viestur's latest book, it's great.

The narration!

The narration alone is annoying.

The writing is horrible and the storyline is stilted. Too much to hope for Touching the Void, when you know you are going to get Vertical Limit.

The photography is the only thing worth watching. It's hard to go wrong on the magnificent scenery. Just turn the sound off!

Hey....I liked Vertical Limit...so did Ed.

I agree with Giggy and Jess.

I think the "motorcycle dude" should get an open invite to the next VFFT Gathering!!

Peace.

whenever there's a show on like this, there's always criticism from the few who actually know something about it (ie; us on this forum). i'm very much into biking. whenever the tour de france comes around every year, you get the exact same criticism of oln (now, the versus network) on the biking forums. "too many commercials", "al trautwig doesn't know what he's talking about", etc. like i always say. there could be no coverage at all. you might be resigned to watching another "predator" dateline episode. i know it might not be the best, or most accurate, or is way too commercial, but you get to look at tall mountains for about an hour. right?

If this is truly made for TV, the "motorcycle dude" will make it to the summit.

I would like to party with tim the bike man!

I agree w/ Giggy and Jessbee, the show is not geared for the 1/10th of 1% of the population that are hardcore winter climbers that know the difference in all the terminology and gear. That would be an incredibly stupid marketing decision. I for one enjoyed the show for what it was and the amazing scenery. I will definitely be tuning in for the rest of the episodes. I like the climbers that they chose to chronicle, and i would find it less interesting to watch the top 6 climbers in the world climb the mountain. I like watching more of the "everyman" climb. This show did not set out to appeal to the elitists.

Thumbs down for me.

In a sick way, I found it sort of comical, but at the same time was disgusted with the lack of value on human life.

There are at least two mentions of the lack of value of human life. While it is tragic, it is clearly not without precedent. They mentioned several times that the climbers (or at least some of them) were willing to die for the experience.

I found these statistics:


http://www.mnteverest.net/history.html

Best and Worst Years on Everest:

1993, 129 summitted and eight died (a ratio of 16:1);
in 1996, 98 summitted and 15 died (a ratio of 6.5:1)

Click to expand...

http://www.npr.org/programs/re/archivesdate/2003/apr/everest/index.html

April, 2003

Since 1953, around 1,200 people have reached the top of Everest, but
nearly 200 have died trying. In 1996, the mountain had its worst death
toll. Fifteen people died, eight in one storm that trapped several
groups near the summit.

Click to expand...

That's one in six. How many folks would line up to do the NH 48 / ADK 46 if they had a one in six chance of not returning? Is there anything out there that people PAY MONEY to do with such a high risk of death? If you really have a fear of dying or cannot tolerate watching others die, I think you do not pay money to climb Everest.

Also, it's difficult to know how profoundly everyone felt the death of that one young Sherpa. We only see what the producers want us to see. Just like any other "reality" show.

Of course this does support the point made by a few posters that the show highlights all the things that are bad about Everest (commercialization, littering, death, frostbite, amputations, ...)

In reality, most of us are much closer to the "climbing tourists" in this show then we are to professional or true climbers.

Too soon to know for sure, but for now I'm enjoying this for what it is -- a story about a faraway conquest I will never experience for myself.

Tim