downhill to XC ski conversion

Anybody ever convert a pair of downhill skiis to cross country? I've got a pair of xc skiis but I'd rather have backcountry. While browsing at Goodwill the other day and seeing that you can buy a pair of old downhills for about 5 bucks I had the idea to convert a pair. I suppose I could just put my NNN bindings on em and head out, right? I'm not looking for something that I could ski down mountains with, just something for more control off-trail or better turning ability when going sorta fast. Seems like it should work, but things are never that simple...

Anybody have any thoughts?

Downhill skis tend to be too wide for NNN bindings and the matching boots. (My BC skis are 51-55mm at the waist.) You will have difficulty applying enough torque to force an edge into hard snow or ice on a wide ski unless you use a sturdy (ie Tele, AT, or DH) binding and a high stiff boot. (Haven't looked, sturdy NNN boots might exist, but I would be concerned about the reliability of the boot-binding system--NNN wasn't designed for that kind of punishment.)

I have a pair of lightweight Tele skis (Tua Traverse, 67mm at the waist) that I have mounted with a 3-pin binding for use with my BC boots--I can control the skis in powder, but have difficulty edging on hardpack.

Downhill skis are also rather heavy. My BC skis and bindings weigh about 6lbs. (My 3-pin BC bindings weigh ~13oz.) Don't have any DH skis, but my regular Tele skis (including ~2lb bindings) weigh 8-9.5 lbs. On occasion, I have XC waxed some of my Tele skis and used them for BC, but I used a lightish-weight plastic tele boot (Scarpa T3, 6 lb) with them.

For comparison, my leather Snowfield II XC/BC boots weigh 4 lb 3oz.

Dave.M has some comments on bindings: http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html. Worth a read.

Doug

Also, DH skis are single camber and don't have a wax pocket. You'll have to rewax frequently or use skins. For a few extra bucks you can buy a pair of used skis and have a much more useful pair.

-dave-

I have some friends that are serious Tele backcountry skiers... lots of radical terrain. They have really good TELE skis but they also use old Alpine skies, put cable bindings on them, and use taller rigid boots and hiking type backcountry ski boots. They were very good at adapting skis/boots.
I gave them all my old skis.
They use skins to go uphill with them.
Now...I do emphasize that these three are "radicalists" and super strong athletes. Obviously going uphill with this type of gear is not an easy thing to do. "LE GRAVE" is their idea of a good time and when they reached the base after telemarking the "front four" on Mansfield they looked at each other and said "where's the challenge???"
They are regulars up at Killington. Even though they have season passes, you might see them hiking up to the summit under one of the chairs to "earn their turns".
I only use my shorter/wider/ backcountry skis, with full metal edges and more double camber. I am just not in their league and never will be.

You're basically trying to pound nails with a screwdriver. You could do it. But, in the long run, it probably wouldn't be fun enough for the time you put in.

trailbiscuit said:

You're basically trying to pound nails with a screwdriver. You could do it. But, in the long run, it probably wouldn't be fun enough for the time you put in.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was worried about that. Most of my projects wind up that way . Guess I'll hold off, it was fun to think about anyway.

Maddy said:

I have some friends that are serious Tele backcountry skiers... lots of radical terrain. They have really good TELE skis but they also use old Alpine skies, put cable bindings on them, and use taller rigid boots and hiking type backcountry ski boots. They were very good at adapting skis/boots.

Click to expand...

Putting Tele bindings on old alpine skis (with a relatively soft tail) is a reasonable method for getting a pair of cheap tele skis. Seems an appropriate way to make some cheap rock skis...

Doug

David Metsky said:

Also, DH skis are single camber and don't have a wax pocket. You'll have to rewax frequently or use skins. For a few extra bucks you can buy a pair of used skis and have a much more useful pair.

Click to expand...

I've used single camber skis for BC kick-and-glide a number of times without too much difficulty keeping my wax on. On the other hand, there was the day where conditions were an abrasive thin breakable crust over cold powder...* Even my camber-and-a-half BC skis couldn't keep wax for over 200yds or so. So, I guess it depends on snow conditions. There are also techniques/tricks that one can use to prolong the life of the wax.

I agree, a used pair of BC skis is a better bet than used DH skis.

* This was a hard wax over klister or waxless day. But I didn't know about hard wax over klister back then and didn't have my waxless skis along. The conditions were the result of a cold snow that finished with a tiny bit of drizzle.

Doug

Well, back in the days when skis were made from wood, I ripped down a few pairs of old alpine skis and used them for XC. Cheap way to make a pair of xc skis.

they'll work

My first pair of backcountry skis were alpine skis with 'bear trap' bindings. Not efficient, but bomber and perfect for wackin' in the snow. When you do get the real skis, you'll appreciate them that much more.

Peaks said:

Well, back in the days when skis were made from wood, I ripped down a few pairs of old alpine skis and used them for XC. Cheap way to make a pair of xc skis.

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I remember that! Back in the 1950s (and maybe beyond) my Vermont town's high school wood shop tablesaw got a pretty good workout trimming down Army surplus (wood) skis, which then were fitted with XC bindings. Old high cut work shoes often served as boots for these outfits.

G.

sleeping bear said:

Anybody ever convert a pair of downhill skiis to cross country? I've got a pair of xc skiis but I'd rather have backcountry. While browsing at Goodwill the other day and seeing that you can buy a pair of old downhills for about 5 bucks I had the idea to convert a pair. I suppose I could just put my NNN bindings on em and head out, right? I'm not looking for something that I could ski down mountains with, just something for more control off-trail or better turning ability when going sorta fast. Seems like it should work, but things are never that simple...

Anybody have any thoughts?

Click to expand...

Sleeping Bear,

You can have fun with just about any set of boots, bindings and skis. That said, you might consider coming at the problem from another direction and look at upgrading your boots. I'm a big fan of putting slightly taller, laterally stiffer boots on narrower skis. I find I pick up more control with more boot than more skis.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/bc-boots.html#match

I was talking to a former designer for Alpina last year and he noted that he always believed the marketing folks should have said that the NNN-BC boots and bindings should have been sold as "better control", not "backcountry".

Cheap $5 alpine skis can be a great way to get off trail for cheap. In particular, look for older style non-shaped skis with a 85/65/75 profile that were sold for beginners Take a tape measure to verify the side cut and avoid stiff skis. These skis will work just fine off trail and are roughly the same in proportions to some of the skis being sold today as backcountry skis. When paired with NNN boots, you won't get much turning control.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/bc-skis.html#SLALOM

You'll need to learn to use kick wax if you go this route. It's not rocket science.
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html