Down Jackets for Winter Dayhikes

Hi all -

I would like to solicit your thoughts regarding whether down jackets make sense for winter dayhikes.

Here is what I think I understand:

On the positive side, I know they are warm, lightweight and wind resistant. Its warmth to weight ratio appears to be the best.

On the negative side, I read that down provides minimal insulation when wet.

Based on the above, it would seem that down might not be a good choice, as the risks of getting wet in winter would seem high (either by rain, sleet, snow or sweat). Purchasing slightly heavier garments that stay warm when wet seems to be the better option.

What are your thoughts, folks?

Thanks,
Marty

opinion on down

My opinion, and therefore my use of down jackets on winter dayhikes it that they are bad for hiking in, great for when you stop, either for a short rest or time on the summit/lunch whatever.

I feel they are a must have in your pack for emergency situations - take up little space and add little weight as you mentioned.

They are awful for summer dayhikes, especially at lower elevations. But they make a fine pillow on summer overnights.

Rob

I always carry my down jacket in the winter with me (stuffs into it's own pocket).
I usually never expect to use it and am never that cold when I'm on the move (have 3 other layers that do plenty).

To me it's light enough and packs down pretty well that it's well worth the extra warmth just in case.

IMO-as for the con of "cold when wet" - takes quite a bit of moisture to completely make a down jacket useless. If your backpack is that wet inside that it drenches your down jacket then it's probably not that cold to need a down jacket and throwing on a shell and mid insulation will do just fine to get out of that cold rain.

edit:just to add - nartreb is right - down or any synthetic pile insulation material (primaloft, polarguard, thermore, etc..) are not wind resistant, but their shells usually are - and they also usually put a DWR coating on them to make them water resistant (but not proof).

Also, if you are sweating then there are ways to stop the sweating-take off that down jacket

-Doug

cbcbd said:

IMO-as for the con of "cold when wet" - takes quite a bit of moisture to completely make a down jacket useless. If your backpack is that wet inside that it drenches your down jacket then it's probably not that cold to need a down jacket and throwing on a shell and mid insulation will do just fine to get out of that cold rain.


-Doug

Click to expand...

I totally agree! The "Oh my god, you're taking down!! What if it gets went??" rant drives me nuts. There's a simple sollution... don't get it wet.

I think a down jacket is necessary to carry in the winter while hiking, skiing, snowshoeing etc. Unless you can still see your car, take it. Given that those activities are aerobic and you'll be staying wam through activity, you'll probably be dressed light. If you (or someone with you, or even a stanger) hurt themselves and you had to stop you'd be cold real fast. I don't mean to get into this whole debate about where and when is safe to go, because it doesn't matter. If you fell in your back yard and couldn't get up, you might be hypothermic before your neighbor noticed you. I'd be willing to say that a down jacket in your pack is easily as valuable as food and water. You'll freeze to death before you die of starvation or dehydration.

I'm in the "take it with you" camp. I've got an EMS down sweater that stuffs really small and doesn't weigh much, but it's great for rest stops, or in camp. If it's really cold out it really isn't likely to get wet from anything other than sweat, and that's easy to avoid.

Your understanding is correct, except for two points:
1) I think that down itself is only moderately wind-resistant; most down jackets will include a windproof outer fabric.
2) I think your fear of snow is exaggerated. The outer fabric of any jacket will also be somewhat water-resistant, which is usually enough that it would take a prolonged exposure to some extremely wet snow, or outright rain, in order to make an appreciable difference to the warmth of the jacket. Not something you'd really worry about in a normal winter in the mountains. Similarly, the amount of sweat it would take to soak a down jacket is more than I'd ever like to try to generate.

Nevertheless, down is not a great choice when you're working hard - your sweat won't evaporate. Before you start that tough uphill section, you'll want to take the down off and go with a light fleece instead.

Also, down is extremely slow to dry once it does get wet, which is something to be aware of when considering how much wetness to risk. (Edit: worse than fleece? Not sure, but probably.)

An important feature that makes down attractive is that it's far more compressible than other forms of insulation. So when you're not wearing your down jacket, you can easily stow it in your pack.
That's the main selling point for me: it's survival gear. I don't actually wear it much when I'm hiking uphill, but it's a great thing to carry.

Down is unbeatable for winter camping and other winter activities where you're not moving around much and/or exposed to extreme cold - like having a picnic above treeline, or sitting on a ski lift, or waiting for a rescue.

I never go anywhere during winter without my down jacket . . . it is my emergency insulation, my stop and stay warm gear, my peace of mind jacket and it is soft and fluufy and comfy to boot . . . that being said I have only hiked in my down jacket when the temps have been well below zero, but I HAVE hiked in it. I have carried it during downpours in a trash compactor bag and have never had a problem with having it get wet so I cannot say how poorly it does when wet (because I just don't let it get wet).

I love down!

sli74

I like my down vest but pack it if there is any chance it will get wet, from the inside or outside. What I like about down is that it is very packable, a good payoff of insulation for the weight and space it takes but with the limitation regarding wet conditions including perspiration.

I carry a pretty warm down jacket (my "sleeping bag with sleeves"), but only use it when stopped for an extended period or camping. It is far too warm to use when moving. For dayhikes, I consider it to be emergency gear.

When in motion, I use fleece, wool, and/or a shell.

Doug

Down Jacket = Insurance!

I always take my down parka on wintery hikes, winter camping, or when winter climbing - there seems to be a little thematic consistency here - WINTER! When it's cold outside, i need my WARM coat (just mike my Mamma used to tell me!!!) It is a bit on the bulky/heavy side, BUT so is water - though H2O is really more heavy than bulky and both are necessary imho.

The parka is kept in the top of my pack and when i stop for any more than 5 minutes or so - depending on wind and temperature - it goes on and since it is always in the same place, no muss no fuss.

don't let down get wet

like sleeping bear wrote, don't let the jacket get wet. same goes for sleeping bags. i hear all the time: "but down gets wet". don't let it get wet. use a vapor barrier inside and a cover/waterproof thin bivy, on the ouside. this should prevent the bag from ever getting wet.

make sure the jacket is stuffed in a waterproof stuff sack when not being used. when you purchase a down jacket, try and make sure the fabric is waterproof. i have a marmot mountain down jacket and the fabric is waterproof and wind resistant. i've tested it, and it repels water great. i believe in cold weather you should always have some down with you. if i don't carry the jacket, i have a down vest for when the weather is more mild. you have to keep your torso warm in the event of an emergency or when not moving.

I always carry my down coat in winter for all of the above reasons- I can always put a shell over it to keep it dry if I'm inactive (much to warm if your are moving with it)- in addition, I also carry my DOWN PANTS-light, very compressible and very toasty_ my thinking is it gives me great flexibility of insulation and, added to my bivy sack, provides me the equivalent of a very warm sleeping bag and one person tent in case of emergency-

I never leave home without the down jacket in winter, it provides so much warmth for the weight and size that it makes sense to take it, even as a last resort. In an emergency, I plan on using it in conjunction with my 15° down bag and bivy sack should I need to spend the night somewhere unexpectedly, but I'd only use it for sleeping in an emergency.

I have hiked in mine below zero when it was snowing with no problem. As soon as I started to heat up I brushed the snow off and packed it away. Because it provides a lot of insulation, the snow typically won't melt while you're wearing it, unless you wear it too long.