Winter day hike pack contents

[forestgnome]

preface: this is definately not directed toward any particular person...

If a hiker is at any greater risk of injury due to the "extra" weight of a sleeping bag and pad, then they are far too weak to be hiking in the mountains. Of corse, there is a point at which pack weight will increase risk of back injury, but face it, basic safety items such as bag, pad, coat, etc. don't add up to all that much weight. The idea of this as "extra" in such winter conditions, instead of standard weight, is IMO just plain ole foolish. No amount of flaming will change that

Happy Trails

[TomD]

I post a lot on The Lightweight Backpacker (TLB) at www.backpacking.net.

This question, in one form or another, especially for winter hikes and camping has been an ongoing debate for several years. Most of the posters don't have the severe winter weather you guys have back East, even in the Sierra, it doesn't seem to be as nasty. I tend to agree with the "take enough to stay alive if caught out overnight" crowd ("benighted" as they say). However, it's hard to convince many people to take what they really should have. If I know I'm not far from the car, and other people are around, I don't bother with everything I probably should have-just enough to be comfortable for a few hours, if I got stuck. A shovel and emergency blanket usually come along if I'm alone, which I've only done a couple of times and not all that far from civilization.

[John H Swanson]

The "MacGyver" factor

Second mention of "can you" -- I can't. How do you?

Tim

Wet wood is different than in the rain....though the latter is more difficult but possible too.

It's all in the preparation.

1) Start the preparation process at home. There are many good firestarters but my preference is cotton balls soaked in wax. They burn hot, with a high (4-6") flame and longer than those soaked in vasiline. They store well. Also, I prefer an adjustable flame lighter on a string arond my neck to keep it dry enough and warm. A second in the pack as back-up.

2) collect, sort, and break-up at least a 1-2ft pile of various sizes of wood before you start. Select the drier wood from under trees, lower dead branches on the trees, etc. Peel the wet bark off some of the wetter wood. Store collected wood in a dry place (put it under your pack or a pine tree). Do not colllect too much big (over 2" diameter wood.) Of course you need some, but most of the wood needed in the start is matchstick size, pencil size and 1" diameter. Do all of this before starting the fire because a wet wood fire requires alot of attention and you won't have time to collect more wood until you have a mature fire with coals.

3) pick a good spot. Shelter from wind and dripping branches (and rain if appropriate). Provide a good foundation - fires on snow do not work. One of the challenges. Plus give yourself a good spot next to it for sitting, laying down etc.

4) Building the fire is essentially the same as with dry wood - positioning the wood for good airflow; adding wood on top to catch from the flame below....I cant teach you this in a posting.

5) The flame will dry the wood on the outside of the fire so in general, you over feed the fire (put more wood on it than necessary) to get with the outer wood starting to dry. Basically you are cooking the wood first then burning it. of course there is a balance. All wood must be air spaced and the extra wood can't collapse the active part of the fire.

6) You need more patience with wet wood. You need to give the fire time to do it's "work" When my wet wood fire fail it's because I'm forcing the process and doing too much moving around of the wood.

7)In the beginning keep an small open space in the front of the fire to add your "good wood" to help the flame if it starts to struggle or if you are really having a problem, a second cotton ball. The good wood is some of the drier small best pieces you hold on the side. Obviously you need enough of these to get the fire going but you need to keep some in reserve. When I'm done with a fire there is usually a 5" diameter pile of pencil sized sticks I have not used. For wet wood, the good wood is a combination of matchstick and pencil sized wood.

Most novices fail before they even start with inadequate preparation.

[bikehikeskifish]

Thanks... Now I'm curious about building a fire on snow -- you state "fires on snow do not work" but sleeping bear says "am capable of making a fire from wet wood in the snow."

I was aware of the fire starters described earlier, and it makes sense that they aid in drying the wood.

Most places I've hiked do not allow campfires, legally. Of course, if your life is in danger I'm guessing they won't punish you too badly.

Tim

[DougPaul]

Thanks... Now I'm curious about building a fire on snow -- you state "fires on snow do not work" but sleeping bear says "am capable of making a fire from wet wood in the snow."

You have to make a pad (wet wood will do) and build your fire on top of it. Otherwise the melting snow is likely to put your fire out.

Doug

[Chip]

Thanks... Now I'm curious about building a fire on snow -- Tim

Another good multi-use thing to carry is a length, maybe 6' to 10', of a medium guage wire. This can be used for repairs, traps , bindings, etc as well as to make a mesh pad to build a fire on.

[whcobbs]

Hi Chip--
I've slept soundly at 0 d F in the following, each time in an open front AT leanto, once in a high wind blizzard at Wilson S in MA. The point of this approach is a body heat system, intended to assure that all clothing is dry by morning without recourse to fires, stoves, etc. So its mostly synthetics. Some of the stuff is custom or home sewn*. This is all from memory:

Silnylon/Pertex Bivy/bag cover* 12 oz
Primaloft Parka 34 oz
Primaloft pants*, Pertex, 14 oz
Primaloft booties*, 10 oz
Primaloft mittens (insulated stuff sacks)*
Polarguard bag, 2 lb (35 d F) North Face
polypro bike jersey 11 oz
polypro bike tights 9 oz
Pertex wind shirt, hooded*
silnylon windsuit, hooded, Dancing Lite Gear
disposable poly gloves vb
silnylon stuff sacs, vb for feet
polypro long johns+top, 12 oz
neoprene socks
polypro liner socks
OR fleece mitten liners
gortex mitten shells*
polypro bike balaclava
blue foam pad + evazote pad

The vapor barriers on hands, feet, and body and the stretch layers over them are really necesssary to make this system work. It is very uncomfortable above freezing. For below 0 d F, one must either dig down in the snow or carry more insulation.

Walt

Care to share your specifics ? I'm interested in what you had for clothes and how cold you were prepared to go. I assume you did not carry a gore-tex type hard-shell in addition to the rainsuit ?

[bikehikeskifish]

You have to make a pad (wet wood will do) and build your fire on top of it. Otherwise the melting snow is likely to put your fire out.

Doug

That makes sense. I've seen bonfires on lakes in the winter while ice fishing, along with the half-submerged and re-frozen remains of a fire, so I know it could be done. I've never tried to make one myself. I have used a LNG heater/stove and a Coleman lantern to heat bob houses.

My fire-making skills are limited to charcoal grills, fireplaces, and wood stoves, where a propane torch makes an excellent (and low-smoke!) fire starter.

Tim

[erugs]

I've just started reading a book by survival instructor Cody Lundin called "98.6 Degrees: The Art of Keeping Your Ass Alive." Have any of you read it? Seems that fear is one of the biggest elements in surviving a situation or not, so an important key is carrying the right balance of gear and attitude.

[DougPaul]

a propane torch makes an excellent (and low-smoke!) fire starter.

A little heavy for the backcountry...

Paraffin soaked corregated cardboard, vaseline soaked cotton balls or dryer lint, esbit tablets, etc work and are much more portable. You can also make fuzz-sticks with a knife and an appropriate piece of dry wood. Liquid gasoline is lousy for starting wood fires.

Not very good at this--I normally use a stove and almost never a fire.

Doug

[Mad Townie]

For fire starters, I tear the cover off a paperboard egg carton, tear the cover up and put it in the "cups." Then I melt some paraffin and pour it into the cups, being careful to have something underneath since the paraffin soaks through and can make a mess!

I cut them into individual cups and always take a couple with me. They light easily, last a pretty long time and make enough fire to dry and ignite small twigs. Another positive factor is that they don't blow away very easily, although if a wind is strong enough to blow your fire starters away it's probably strong enough to blow your fire out. (Sorry, Doug, I don't know the math on that one. )

[DougPaul]

if a wind is strong enough to blow your fire starters away it's probably strong enough to blow your fire out. (Sorry, Doug, I don't know the math on that one. )

Turbulent flow, etc. Probably requires the full Navier-Stokes equations. Too much for me too...

Doug

[bikehikeskifish]

Where does one find blocks of paraffin cheap? I went looking once and didn't come across any.

Tim

[DougPaul]

Where does one find blocks of paraffin cheap? I went looking once and didn't come across any.

Good old fashioned hardware store. It is used for home canning. (sealing the jars) I know there is one in Arlington, MA that has it.

Doug

[sapblatt]

Where does one find blocks of paraffin cheap? I went looking once and didn't come across any.

Tim

Isn't this the wax that you can find in a supermarket in boxes along with mason jars and other canning supplies?