I still go "hiking" with my dog on occasion, but skiing is different. Darren's point is a good one, but because of the speed of a skier (see Grouseking's adventure) having a dog there adds another layer of complexity. The do wreck the trail if they have been groomed. Also, I suppose we've all stepped in dog poop, but you ever ski through it? blech.
New sign - No dogs allowed?
- Thread starter Flatlander_SG
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funkyfreddy
Well-known member
F-Face said:
Yes, I agree...... we should legislate/regulate all remaining human/canine liberties completely...... and whatever is not compulsory should be absolutely forbidden, in the whites and everywhere else for that matter
A dog or any other mammal running free through our national forests? Oh my, the thought just scares the bejeesus out of me!
F-Face
New member
re: the adk's. i know i have seen NO DOGS ALLOWED signs, and I thought i had a pic of one, but having a hard time locating it in my archive of 10,000+ pictures.
regardless, i have had too many negative dog experiences when i'm out looking for quietness in the wildnerness. my days off come at a significant cost, so i cherish them, and when some dog comes sauntering up to me, sniffing through my pack, trying to snake my bagel, jumping up on me, slobbering all over me, taking a big dump on the side of the trail, scaring the cr_p out of my kids, etc. it ruins the day. yeah, probably the fault of the owner for being irresponsible for managing the pet, which an all-out ban would resolve... all it takes is a few rotten apples to ruin the sauce.
just one of my many negative dog stories before i move on. i had hiked up to eisenhower and the wind was out of control. i sat on the leeward side of that massive cairn enjoying the summit 100% to myself. later, some dude comes up, sits near me for the same reason - get out of the wind. 15 mins later, a couple comes up with a dog. they too have to seek shelter. dog starts climbing over my legs. i ask politely for them to control their dog. dog does it again. I ask again, being nice about it, but serious. third time it happened, the dog got air off my boot... i was bs'ed ... the people were bs'ed at me and left. the guy next to me didn't fault me after i asked 2 freakin times for them to control their f_g dog and keep it from walking ALL OVER MY LEGS and gear.
i'm sure all of you control your dogs and i'll never, ever have an issue with ya'll, but there are people out there who apparently are too thick to realize or too selfless to care about YOUR experience in the wilderness with their dog......
just like the experience darren mentioned with the guy being towed with his dog ... WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT GUY THINKING?!?!
regardless, i have had too many negative dog experiences when i'm out looking for quietness in the wildnerness. my days off come at a significant cost, so i cherish them, and when some dog comes sauntering up to me, sniffing through my pack, trying to snake my bagel, jumping up on me, slobbering all over me, taking a big dump on the side of the trail, scaring the cr_p out of my kids, etc. it ruins the day. yeah, probably the fault of the owner for being irresponsible for managing the pet, which an all-out ban would resolve... all it takes is a few rotten apples to ruin the sauce.
just one of my many negative dog stories before i move on. i had hiked up to eisenhower and the wind was out of control. i sat on the leeward side of that massive cairn enjoying the summit 100% to myself. later, some dude comes up, sits near me for the same reason - get out of the wind. 15 mins later, a couple comes up with a dog. they too have to seek shelter. dog starts climbing over my legs. i ask politely for them to control their dog. dog does it again. I ask again, being nice about it, but serious. third time it happened, the dog got air off my boot... i was bs'ed ... the people were bs'ed at me and left. the guy next to me didn't fault me after i asked 2 freakin times for them to control their f_g dog and keep it from walking ALL OVER MY LEGS and gear.
i'm sure all of you control your dogs and i'll never, ever have an issue with ya'll, but there are people out there who apparently are too thick to realize or too selfless to care about YOUR experience in the wilderness with their dog......
just like the experience darren mentioned with the guy being towed with his dog ... WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT GUY THINKING?!?!
una_dogger
Well-known member
FFace, while I can sympathize with your negative experiences I have to point out that your problems stemmed from the human side of the equation.
There are many serious dog people on this board (myself included) who consider the canine human bond to be one of the greatest bonds, and many of us work hard to condition our dogs to be capable of sharing and enriching our wilderness experiences. Please be aware that you are among dog owners of that kind here, respect our right to enjoy the wilderness with our dogs. Broad brush generalizations do not apply here.
There are many many dog sports that serious dog people train for, both for competition, personal enjoyment, and in some cases to use canines to rescue those who have lost thier way in the wilderness. The world of canine : human relations is much larger than you seem to be aware of.
Edited to add that skijorring is a serious sport that requires not only excellent skills for the skier but very rock solid training for the dogs. It saddens me to hear not only are people getting hurt by those training for this sport irresponsibly, but also I feel for the dogs who are being put to the test without adequate training and guidance.
There are many serious dog people on this board (myself included) who consider the canine human bond to be one of the greatest bonds, and many of us work hard to condition our dogs to be capable of sharing and enriching our wilderness experiences. Please be aware that you are among dog owners of that kind here, respect our right to enjoy the wilderness with our dogs. Broad brush generalizations do not apply here.
There are many many dog sports that serious dog people train for, both for competition, personal enjoyment, and in some cases to use canines to rescue those who have lost thier way in the wilderness. The world of canine : human relations is much larger than you seem to be aware of.
Edited to add that skijorring is a serious sport that requires not only excellent skills for the skier but very rock solid training for the dogs. It saddens me to hear not only are people getting hurt by those training for this sport irresponsibly, but also I feel for the dogs who are being put to the test without adequate training and guidance.
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Steve-o
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I think that the sign that F-Face is referring to, might be at the Aussable Club.Tom Rankin said:
It's the only sign I can think of in the ADK's that un-endorses dogs.
I generally find that 9 out of 10 dogs that I pass on the trail are very well behaved.
psmart
Active member
Despite appearances, skijoring involves much more than just a line between you and your dog, and certainly shouldn't be attempted on a busy trail except by an experienced human/canine team. (And then only where dogs are allowed.) You'll know you're good enough when you can ski though the woods and always end up on the same side of each tree! Learning to do this is one of the most rewarding experiences you can share with a dog. It's truly a team sport. You can't just tell the dog where to go. You have to learn each others abilities and habits, until you get to the point where you instinctively choose the same side of the tree - or the oncoming hiker.
Dugan
New member
una_dogger said:
Exactly. Though the "enriching" part should be done well off trail
Another reminder for those of us with hiker dogs: allowing and/or encouraging the bad behaviors noted by others can result in dog bans. There are kennel clubs that lost show sites for just such reasons. If you want to keep the privilege - act responsibly.
And on the other side of the coin - there are places I would like to go, but don't because dogs aren't allowed. Quabbin Reservoir in the middle of MA, Monadnock in NH to name a couple. Log onto each state's parks sites, you'll see whether dogs are allowed.
smitty77
New member
Exactly. It's a sport that requires a lot of training between you and the dog. When I first started hiking with the pup, we'd end up on opposite sies of a tree 10 times during the day. Now it's maybe once per hike as she's learned to "feel" which way I want to go through the tugline. She's also developed a default for passing trees and hikers on the right unless I indicate otherwise. But it has taken us two years of hiking every weekend to get this far, and I expect the same learning curve if I ever get on a set of skis.psmart said:
As for Darren's post, who knows what that guy was thinking. Maybe he had a little too much confidence in his dog? I try to avoid busy trails when hiking, and they'll be near empty when I try skijoring.
sardog1
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When skijoring, I avoid ski-groomed trails and trails with poor visibility on hills. I watch my dog and the tracks in front of me for indications of other users. If someone comes toward me, the dog and I go off the trail and give the other person space to pass. If I need to pass someone, I do it with dog at my left side and held closely at the heel position while I pass to the person's left.
When hiking on trails in the presence of others, the dog is attached to me by a retractable leash that is clipped into a sit harness or my pack waist belt. This leaves both hands free for trekking poles, root grabbing, etc. It also means that I have complete control over my dog in the event we meet people or another dog. My dog is never allowed to "greet" people unless they first say something like "Oh, what a nice/good-looking/well-behaved dog." This exposes them as dog fans, and I will ask whether they want to meet the dog.
My dog goes off-lead only when I'm reasonably confident no one is in the vicinity. I watch him for signals that he has detected someone else nearby. He does rock-solid voice and whistle recalls, because I trained for it and maintain the training.
When I see a poorly-controlled dog causing problems with non-dog people, I will talk with the dog owner and explain that restrictions on dog access arise from that sort of conduct. I can get pretty direct on this point if I don't get cooperation. If the dog comes over to hassle my dog with aggressive intent and the owner won't/can't control the dog after being asked by me, my boot toe is ready for some "operant conditioning" under the other dog's lower jaw. One application is usually enough for both dog and owner. If a second application is required, more force is applied. I won't allow my dog to get injured while it's restrained by me.
When hiking on trails in the presence of others, the dog is attached to me by a retractable leash that is clipped into a sit harness or my pack waist belt. This leaves both hands free for trekking poles, root grabbing, etc. It also means that I have complete control over my dog in the event we meet people or another dog. My dog is never allowed to "greet" people unless they first say something like "Oh, what a nice/good-looking/well-behaved dog." This exposes them as dog fans, and I will ask whether they want to meet the dog.
My dog goes off-lead only when I'm reasonably confident no one is in the vicinity. I watch him for signals that he has detected someone else nearby. He does rock-solid voice and whistle recalls, because I trained for it and maintain the training.
When I see a poorly-controlled dog causing problems with non-dog people, I will talk with the dog owner and explain that restrictions on dog access arise from that sort of conduct. I can get pretty direct on this point if I don't get cooperation. If the dog comes over to hassle my dog with aggressive intent and the owner won't/can't control the dog after being asked by me, my boot toe is ready for some "operant conditioning" under the other dog's lower jaw. One application is usually enough for both dog and owner. If a second application is required, more force is applied. I won't allow my dog to get injured while it's restrained by me.
smitty77
New member
Thank You! I've had a few encounters begin with "Come Rover! Come Rover! Don't worry he's friendly. Come Rover!!!!" It downright p--ses me off when this happens because I know how non-dog-lovers feel about encounters like this. On one occasion my dog felt the need to defend her personal space. As "Rover" retreated with his tail between his legs the other person accused my dog of being "a little aggressive." Excuse me, but who's dog is off lead and not under any form of audible control?sardog1 said:
It nice to know some folks out there believe in trail-dog ettiquette.
Smitty
darren
Poobah Emeritus
I just wanted to clarify that the reckless guy that I saw skijoring did not look like he knew what he was doing or that he was in "training". The leash to his dog was a clothes line and although I will admit that I know nothing about skijoring the rope appeared to be longer than necessary.
- darren
- darren
smitty77
New member
Sounds more like "skiing while walking the dog" versus the using the dog to help move you along, which takes more discipline on the part of the dog to stay focused and avoid distractions. Unless he was trying it without doing some basic research, skijoring with a simple tugline (ie. without a built in "shock absorber") is a good way to wreck your back and/or injure your dog.darren said:
Judging by the instructions on Skijor.com, a one-dog line should be approximately 10 feet long. (I have yet to actually measure the one I made.) More than enough to reach the opposite site of most ski trails!
Smitty
