Proposal to have NY section of VFTT?

With almost daily requests, and today reminded by Roy in a different section of the board, I' wanted to discuss a revisiting the idea of a separate NY section of VFTT.
I've been talking with Darren about this on and off for quite some time and the frequency of requests to me provides me with the oppty to make the suggestion. Of course, its Darren's board, and he's been doing this a lot longer than all of us.

There is a part of me that enjoys everything in one place.
Overriding that is that there are many, many VFTT members, though, who feel that information, trips, and general ADK and Catskill posts get swallowed up in the overall New England flavor of this board.
As a result we've seen the establishment of 2 new boards rise and flourish: The Adirondack Forum and ADK High Peaks. I belong to both of those boards as do many VFTT members. Any time I hike with New York VFTT people, correspond or speak with them, the most uniform topic that comes up is why don't we have a NYS section on VFTT, though?

In all fairness to the history, VFTT is the longest running(and in my opinion), the most information-rich of the northeast hiking boards. Thats due to the very experienced member base we have and the fact that VFTT is strongly information-based by design. No intention here to slight the 2 other boards, but they are by design more cozy, have a narrower scope of geographic interest, and have some very knowledgeable posters.

In the past, when this discussion has risen and put to a vote here, the voice of the New England people who largely predominate membership has prevailed.
In speaking with many of my New England colleagues, they prefer not to have to browse another section of VFTT. In deference to the minority, though, many of the ADK-Catskill folks first prowl the 2 New York boards, and come here on a secondary basis.
So long at we don't split the General Backcounty information section, or Trip Reports, I'd personally like to try a "things related to NYS(ADKs and Catskills)" section of the board. First, in deference to the many, many, people who've been asking for it, and at the same time, 'declutter' the other portion of the Northeast portion of the board for those who come in here to look for New England related threads. On balance, the one-extra-click to go to an additional section, would be outweighed by all the extra clicking around to read through threads or posts whose titles might be ambiguous enough so its not clear whether they apply to your geographic interests or not.

As to the extra work, I'm on this board often dozens of times a day, and will be of no extra moderation effort for me to keep my eye on it. What I'd like to see is this done as an experiment, and then the members and moderators take a look at it in 6 months to see if it should be kept, improved, or scrapped.

For those who might instinctively be against the idea because you also read about NY, I'd ask your indulgence with this...If VFTT had its origins in NY, I'd certainly be interested in an experiment to see if establishing a New England section might make this more efficient, and perhaps useful to a strong, but growing minority.
For partisans of both camps, pls let me pose one other idea. When you read posts like: Whats your favorite mountain, or an ambiguously titled thread turns out to be about NY(or New England), and you have no interest in that other area, that takes a lot of time, in little bites over the months.

It was only that Roy raised the topic elsewhere that got me thinking. And last nite I got a phone call from a good friend who belongs to both boards and she had some good ideas about a NY section. I had some time in the car today to think about it, and then Roy's question jumped out at me.

RoySwkr said:

Why not split Trip Reports too, some people are careless about tiitles?

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Now, where does my Whiteface report go?

I would be fine with trying it for a while. Is there any negative to trying it?

I'd prefer to keep it one place on one board.

There is allot overlap between hikers in the Daks, Catskills, Whites and Maine Mtns. This is geographically not a huge area compared to other regions. I can be in the Daks, Catskills, Maine and aywhere in the Whites from So. NH in under 4 hours.

The Catskills have a board on Yahoo, and there is www.ADKforum.com and www.ADKhighpeaks.com which you can go to for information.

This is unique board, and its uniqueness is one of the reasons it is so popular that we have to "vet" folks to come in now.

If it is split up could the forum names be more specific??

Carole:
If this we ever tried, I'd propose it as an experiment. I'd also suggest that there be a NY Q&A.

Amstony:
Those other boards are excellent, but I receive a constant stream of requests from members of all 3 boards to have a NY section.
Think of it this way. You'd have to click one more time to check out NY, but IMHO, if you wanted to see something about NE vs NY, you'd more than make up the time by not having to wade thru threads that have no geographic interest, and the titles of which may not indicate what the poster is getting at.

I agree that one of the strengths of this board is that it is broader than the other boards mentioned but not so broad that folks would be uninterested in certain subjects. And I think that fact encourages us to get out there and go out of our home area once and a while - but not too far out of it.

We recently got a paddling forum and a photography forum plus a recent request for a book review forum. I would avoid too many forums since it would tend to splinter the group. Already the distinction between Q&A and General backcountrty is often hard to grasp. I usually just hit "New Posts" and get them all intermixed anyway.

I don't mind reading stuff for areas I don't often visit. I would hope folks don't mind reading stuff I write about off the beaten path places either.

I would favor a harmless experiment. If there is suitable demand for it and the option to return to the way it is now if it's not well received, then there is nothing to lose.

I like the idea of a separate forum for NY but not for separate trip reports.

-Dr. Wu

It's a great idea, we all look at the board a minute here and there during the day often while at work to remind us of the mountains we so much enjoy on weekend or/and whenever possible. Therefore the easier it is to surf the better, aren’t we all selfish and weird: we spend hours on the trails and are only willing to spend seconds on the web, but why not enjoy that luxury?

No doubt a large majority of the WFTT gang is narrowly focused on an particular area and rarely if ever (in my case anyway) read anything related to the other side of Lake Champlain... it's a big lake after all, and with the high cost of gas only a small group of climbers climbs regularly all over New England year around. We already enjoy a regionalize trail conditions so why not apply the same principle to some sections of the forum.

Darren please, please...

Thanks,

Christine

I don't think so

I'm from New York and do most of my hiking here. However, I really like all of the hiking threads in the same place. When I see something about the Boott Spur trail (that I am not familiar with) I decide if I want to take a look. I've learned much about different sections of the NE this way.

Same way in reverse -- many of the posts and Trip Reports about hikes in NY introduce and remind others of the different characteritics of hiking in areas w/in NY.

I'm also a member of the other NY/ADK boards, and find them informative and worthwhile when I look for NY/ADK specific information. However, I primarily depend on and enjoy the information on this board.

I usually just hit "New Posts" and get them all intermixed anyway.

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Really! And, I'm not convinced that it just doesn't penalize those like me that prefer to see everything and will have to browse in more than one place.

I voted to keep the threads together before, and would do it again.

Qustion about the proposed sytem: If I were to click on New Posts would ALL new posts come up for both regions?

Personally, at first when I joined here I thought I'd like two sections. But once I learned about the New Posts button for 50 weeks out of the year it dosen't matter because I just read the threads I'm interested in anyway. Sometimes that means I ignore the NH, VT ME threads, sometimes I don't. That really depends on how much time I have or if the thread title has something in it that piques my interest. Now what about those other two weeks of the year? Those are for when I come back form Maine and I open up VfTT and there's 15 or 20 pages of threads. Now that's when I wish I could just find NY stuff. So I usually just throw up my hands and say Uncle.

Which brings me to another question: I have the ability to use New Posts. Does a non-member have that ability also?

BorealChickadee said:

Qustion about the proposed sytem: If I were to click on New Posts would ALL new posts come up for both regions?

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"New Posts" shows everything. I have subscribed to the paddlers and Photography forums and those threads are there too. Before I subscribed to them they were not. So if the separate forums were made subscribable they would be on or off for "New Posts". If they were not subscribable (i.e. everyone gets them) then "New Posts" would always show threads from both.

In a sense, this feature would seem to mean that this is a non issue. But I think some folks don't use "New Posts" and instead browse separate forums which perhaps allows them to budget their time more closely. Or maybe they just don't know about the "New Posts" function Seriously it took me weeks to discover it when I joined here.

Even though I know everyone is in charge of their own wants and needs, I find it a shame that some folks don't even want to know what's going on outside their preferred area. I think (and I'm repeating myself) that one reason this site is THE BEST is that you are exposed to areas beyond your current area of interest (but as I said, not too far beyond). It sure has gotten me to discover and to explore new areas.

As one of the operators of the other boards (www.adkhighpeaks.com ), and a long time member here (since 2000 - pre crash ), I recall we've been through this debate a couple times here, always deciding to stay within the current format. IIRC, I think that the general tone of this community was to not get too "geographically" specific and stay broader in focus, which is one of the GREAT strengths of this board. Times certainly change, but with 2 large NY based communities (ADK Forum -which dwarf's mine in size, plus mine), I wonder just how much more of a need there is here at VFTT then back then.

Of course, you mention frequents requests for a move like this so perhaps the need is out there and I just don't see it. It the need exists, then go for it. For example, I remember that it was you talked me into providing a "Catskill" section on my board. We did, and because there was a need for it, it flourished and there is quite a catskill community there there with info shared that cannot be found anywhere else.

I'm not sure with 2500 member community at ADKForum and my 550 member community, just how much ADK/Catskill information do we need. IMO, Some members visit all three, some visit just one, but all are available and have peacefully coexisted for several years now. People pick and choose the important things they want from each, and that what makes the relationship special between them

If everyone thinks it's worth it, then I'd be for it. I would caution about diversifying too much on one board. One of the problems I find is which too many sections, cross-posting and confusion as to where to find/put stuff grows. I've seen it on my board, and with a huge community like this, you might see it magnified.

2 Trips and Events Sections

Hello,
I'm the second to newest member here, and initially got in because of the Trips and Events section; I wanted to broaden my circle of hiking friends and people to hike with. Just starting out with all this, I've spent some time already hitting a post, seeing it was a NY hike, clicking out, and trying again. Mostly I'm willing to travel to NE areas, and if I ever wanted/ had the time to get to NY to hike (like when I visit my sister in Manhattan) I'd like to look those events up separately. I hadn't thought of splitting the groups. I just thought I'd eventually become familiar with the members who tend to hike more in NY and with the names of trails and mountains in that area. I like the idea of trip reports, etc. staying together because this is how I learn more about some of those unknown NY places. So being new, I haven't read all about this discussion that I get the impression might have gone on before, but those are my 2 cents worth.
Early Bird

I would not be in favor of a special trip reports section.

I do think there is a large constituency for having a separate NY section of VFTT. I get a lot of requests from my hiking and internet friends, and also from folks I never meet.

The proposal is not about providing more threads, more posts, or taking away anything that isn't here alreay. Its about taking the NY posts and organizing them in one place. This little experiment would make it easy to browse in quickly here, check out what each member prefers, and then check back over to Tim of Dick's boards. For the majority of members who do not routinely hike in one area or another, the tradeoff means 1 extra click lets those who are not interested in the NH or NY scene, not to spend time reading thru whats going on in an area that is of no interest.
And to summarize, this is not changing the specialty of VFTT or making it concentrate on one area or another, the idea is to put the same posts in a couple of areas to make it easier to post and locate similar threads. In my opinion, I feel its an experiment thats worth trying. If people don't like it after a reasonable length of time, than my friends here, on ADKHPs and the ADKForum will let me know and we'd return to the current way.
My only stake in this is to see how people might like an idea thats been circulating behind the scenes for quite a while. Other than a normal human resistance to change from what we're accustomed to, I don't see this as anything other than allowing people to more easily sort where information is, not any change in how VFTT is going to run. Besides, the boss may put the squash on the whole experiment.

And a plug for the Catskills section of Tim's board. One of the nicest resources of information on the net.

In spite of my previous posts which is in favor of the status quo, I would not be against the change for the sake of those who really want it. I would just hope it doesn't fargment the community.

I can see why the NY only crowd may feel left out sometimes. The current NE 3K thread is a good case in point. The locations chosen for gatherings may also discriminate. I just hope you end up reading the New England threads once an a while as well. Stange, for myself as a New Yorker, I favor New England, but not exclusively.

Who knows, tastes may change. Once you've finished the 46 in all 4 seasons, from the 4 compass directions, on each day of the week and barefoot, and 46 times each, maybe you'll look at Coos County. Or heaven forbid, Aroostook!

New York is the empire state, and all other states pale in comparison Where else can you find the greatest city in the world along with some of the greatest hiking in the NE, not to mention some of the greatest people?1?!!

So why is it that i want to move to Maine?

funkyfreddy said:

So why is it that i want to move to Maine?

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Because it's cheaper to get the brakes on an 88 Olds fixed.

Papa Bear,

Your willingness to give it a try says a lot and I appreciate it.
To the extent I'm able, I will not allow this to fragment things, and we should all remember that if we try it, the only thing to start might me a NY Q&A.

Though I completed the NE111 over 20 years ago, I love hiking in NE. As a matter of fact, I've been trolling my friends to see who I might interest in doing these peaks. I read all sections of the board and I think a lot of us NY-ers do. Even the NE section of the Trail Conditions.

As a matter of fact, I'd be interested in visiting Spaulding and Reddington this summer and hope I might hook up with some folks here who are more familiar with the area than I am.

Alan

Once you make the change I doubt you'll ever go back. The outcome is impossible to predict other than it being relatively harmless. I enter VFTT directly from a link to New Posts so I rarely even view the main page anyway. Over the past year I have had the impression that the NY content has been decreasing steadily. The proposed "NY only" section will make it easier to focus on NY material and may very well increase it. I post fewer and fewer of my trip reports here simply because they don't seem to generate anywhere near the interest that they do on ADKHP. I wonder what interest a New Englander would have in a TR entitled, "Lewey and Blue Ridge".

I do know that if I want information on how sunspot activity could affect my gps's accuracy I'm gonna find it here on VFTT.

The Canadian Canoe Routes forum is a hot bed of activity and has about 20 sub-forums. It's not a problem.