Trails known to be covered by avalanche?

Sardog1's thread got me thinking, didn't want to hijack...

Are there any sections of trails, as opposed to slides, that are known to get covered. I was a little nervous one time on the headwall section of Nancy Pond Trail. A few years ago, a massive boulder let go and came to rest right on the trail.

Happy Trails

Avalanche Pass?

Does the name say it all? I have never seen avalanche warnings posted for this stretch of the Adirondacks, but I probably don't know the right place to look. This might be on my menu this weekend (assuming no avalanche warnings).

Lionshead, Tuckerman Ravine, and Huntington Ravine come to mind. Any of the trails into the Great Gulf have the possibility. King Ravine, Great Gully, and Castle Ravine all could go if the conditions were right. I'm guessing that parts of Gulfside (near Jefferson) could go as well.

Tripyramids north and south, Wildcat Ridge just below Wildcat A as you cross the slide path.

-dave-

whitelief said:

I have never seen avalanche warnings posted for this stretch of the Adirondacks, .

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this area was buried and impassable a couple years back after the hurricane. i haven't been back up there in years, but there use to be avalanche warning signs posted there on the trail. is the trail tunnel still there where they cut a path through the mudslide ? it reminded me of a huge game of pick up sticks and mud.

Funny you should ask. I spent some time last night scouting via Google Earth and the AMC maps. Spots around Passaconaway, Osceola, North Tripyramid, the Hancocks, Mt. Kanc, West Bond, the Bowl, Galehead, and Lowell easily caught my eye, and the scouting isn't nearly complete yet. Using Topozone to find place names in NH that start with "avalanche" or "slide" has revealed some likely candidates as well. Note also that el-bagr has previously told me about evidence of avalanche activity he's seen at Osceola's East Peak and Scar Ridge.

Not saying that all of these would pose a hazard -- some are too steep to hold sufficient quantities for a real avalanche, and not all have trails that actually enter avalanche zones -- but they're worth checking out. Which is what I now intend to do with my winter excursions, now that we have some actual winter!

I can tell you right now -- I wouldn't fool around with bushwhacking onto the Pine Bend Brook slides (north side of N. Tripyramid) in current conditions. It impressed me when I stood at the base of those slides a few years back, and that was during the green season. Seeing the Google Earth view has only reinforced my concern.

The one place where I saw a Deposition Zone of an Avalanche that I never thought would slide was between the Log Cabin and the Perch on the Raymond Path some time in the mid 90's. Never say NEVER....even in the trees!

yonkers said:

this area was buried and impassable a couple years back after the hurricane. i haven't been back up there in years, but there use to be avalanche warning signs posted there on the trail. is the trail tunnel still there where they cut a path through the mudslide ? it reminded me of a huge game of pick up sticks and mud.

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Yes, the tunnel and the sign are both still there! Most of the debris is to the slide side of the trail. The pile is still at least 12' - 15' high. Here is a pic:

http://viewsandbrews.com/temp/debris.JPG

Laurie is 5' 4" and hiding in the shadows...

Two winters ago I noticed an area on western side of Clay where the krumholz showed evidence of an avalanche. The exact location is a bit tough to describe - it was late March, so the cover was deep. We were about 1/4 mile above treeline on the Jewell, and turned left to make a straight line to Sphinx Col. About a 1/3 of a mile along this line we could crossed an old AV path. It seemed odd as the slope seemed too moderate, but ... the evidence was pretty obvious - about all that was showing was the occasional bit of krumholtz, but it was clear there had been a slide.

Also - don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but there's a suspect area on E. Osceola (on the Greeley Ponds side) that I always cross with care.

Kevin Rooney said:

Also - don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but there's a suspect area on E. Osceola (on the Greeley Ponds side) that I always cross with care.

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Yeah, that's the one that el-bagr mentioned to me as well.

Thanks to all for their tips -- keep 'em coming please, whether here or on the other thread. I'll consolidate all for reference in the future and post them on my personal web space later.

Kevin Rooney said:

About a 1/3 of a mile along this line we could crossed an old AV path. It seemed odd as the slope seemed too moderate, but ... the evidence was pretty obvious

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It's actually interesting that YES even moderate slopes slide. All you need is enough Snow and the right lubrication layer. I saw a similiar area go in the SE snowfields of George.

Here's another one - the brook that rises on the shoulder of west shoulder Washington (near the Davis Path) and eventually crosses the Ammo trail about 1/3 mile below treeline - this section avalanches if the conditions are just right. About 5 years ago, after a couple of weeks of freeze/thaw, rain, etc - it let go, and the force of the snow/slush/ice/mud was so substantial that it splashed mud wide enough on the snow above treeline to make it visible from the gas station at Fabyan. I went up the Ammo a day or two later and the path was about 30' wide. By last summer the gash where it crossed the Ammo was mostly grown over and you had to look carefully to see the scars. IIRC, someone traversed a good section of the track and found a moose who has been caught in it.

It's a bit obscure, and would be difficult to protect yourself against because where the track crosses the trail it just seems like a brook. According to the old timers it occurs about every 25-50 years.

Kevin Rooney said:

It's a bit obscure, and would be difficult to protect yourself against because where the track crosses the trail it just seems like a brook. According to the old timers it occurs about every 25-50 years.

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This brings up a point that might be worth expounding. Folks who are unfamiliar with avalanches are often unaware how far the slides can travel, and how they can start out of sight above the unwary. Many accidents have involved this scenario, often with someone else triggering the slide far above the victim(s).

Recognizing avalanche terrain includes recognizing this potential. When you can't see the top and the snow is suspected to be unstable, it's a good time to be thinking about alternate routes that avoid avalanche paths, however narrow they might appear as you approach them. When it comes, it might be moving at more than 50 miles an hour. You don't have to be buried to have your day ruined.

Wright Peak in the Adirondacks

Wright Peak in the Adirondacks had a killer avalanche Feb 2000, the weekend of the goodwill games. Hurricane Floyd in Sept 99 caused the mud slide that buried avalanche pass, it also caused a new slide on wright peak. The next winter 6 skiers were caught, 5 injured, 1 buried and killed. I am not sure how close the trail comes to the slide.

whitelief said:

Does the name say it all? I have never seen avalanche warnings posted for this stretch of the Adirondacks, but I probably don't know the right place to look. This might be on my menu this weekend (assuming no avalanche warnings).

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The slide that roared off Colden into Avalanche Pass was from an Avalanche in 1999. It also ripped down the rock cliff walls that once surrounded Avalanche Pass itself.

Besides snow, rain is driver

In addition to snow, heavy rains can be big driving force for steep slopes letting go. I recall reading the reports in Appalachia back in late 1880's describing how the slides on Tripyramids happened. They occurred in August after long periods of heavy rains. After my experiences hiking last spring in heavy rains revealed to me how ground water just oozed out of every pore of cut banks on sidehill trails. I can easily imagine how steep slope could get lubricated and slide might be initiated by some blowdown or maybe even a sidehill trail and build from there to major slide. I figure snow slides might knock down trees but leave soils behind, but landslides take trees and soils leaving ledge and slabs.

Tom Rankin said:

Yes, the tunnel and the sign are both still there! Most of the debris is to the slide side of the trail. The pile is still at least 12' - 15' high. Here is a pic:

http://viewsandbrews.com/temp/debris.JPG

Laurie is 5' 4" and hiding in the shadows...

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Cool photo, Tom. We were staying at Whispering Pines Campground in September 1999 when that avalanche/mudslide happened. Arriving at Marcy Dam the next morning, it was neat watching the helicopters flying thru the pass and hovering over the debris to assess the damage. The rangers advised that the area was off-limits and the trail was closed, so we climbed Phelps instead.

yonkers said:

Wright Peak in the Adirondacks had a killer avalanche Feb 2000, the weekend of the goodwill games. Hurricane Floyd in Sept 99 caused the mud slide that buried avalanche pass, it also caused a new slide on wright peak. The next winter 6 skiers were caught, 5 injured, 1 buried and killed. I am not sure how close the trail comes to the slide.

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The trail that leads to the slide is an illegally cut ski trail. It can be accessed from behind the 1st lento on the right coming into Marcy Dam. It also links up to Whales Tail ski trail off Wright. I climbed the slide a few weeks after the fatal avalanche. Cool slide, but the scrub at the top was to thick to go any farther.

The man responsible for cutting the tunnel through Avalanche Pass after the Colden Slide was Mike, the caretaker of the Lake Colden Outpost. At least that’s what he told me. Both slides formed after the heavy rains of Floyd. The skiers were caught the following winter. It’s a very popular backcountry area now.

Avalance Warnings for this weekend (2/19/07)

The National Weather Service has posted avalance warnings for NY and VT for the weekend. (Already cross posted on NY section)

937 AM EST THU FEB 15 2007

...RISK FOR AVALANCHES IN THE NORTH COUNTRY...

YESTERDAYS RECORD SNOWFALL HAS CREATED THE POTENTIAL FOR
AVALANCHES IN THE BACK COUNTRY OF THE GREEN MOUNTAINS IN VERMONT
AND THE ADIRONDACKS IN NORTHERN NEW YORK...ACCORDING TO STOWE
MOUNTAIN RESCUE OFFICIALS. OUTDOOR ENTHUSIASTS HEADING INTO THE
BACK COUNTRY THROUGH THE WEEKEND NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE AVALANCHE
DANGER...AND RISKS INVOLVED. STEEP...OPEN SLOPES WILL HAVE THE
HIGHEST AVALANCHE RISK.

THE CONDITIONS CREATING THE AVALANCHE POTENTIAL WILL CONTINUE INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK.

IF YOU GO INTO THE ADIRONDACKS OR GREEN MOUNTAINS TO SNOWSHOE...
SKI...OR ICE CLIMB...BE AWARE OF THE AVALANCHE DANGER...AND TAKE
APPROPRIATE PRECAUTIONS.

Thanks, whitelief. That's a rare one for me -- I've never seen a Green Mountains advisory posted before. (Has anyone else?) That should help alert folks that it's not just the Presis that have avalanche terrain. Those granitic "slides" that everyone is so fond of skiing have a potentially deadly double entendre in their name.

The ravine of Monroe Brook had a major avalanche years ago, creating a wide swath where the Ammonoosuc Trail crosses the brook before the traverse to Gem pool. At about the same time an avalanche came down Lion Head, crossing the Tuck trail just below Hermit Lake. As I walk by these places now, the formerly wide-open swaths are all grown up, the size of the new trees making me realize how many years it's been...