Slide Mnt. via the slide (Catskills)

I'm looking to scout a route up the slide of Slide mountain (in the Catskills).

The Catskills Forest: a History indicates the slide starts at the end of the south fork of Woodland creek, but it's not well described, falling back to Burroughs description. Has anyone been up this way and if so:

Is it a Catskills talus slide or a ADK style slab slide? I'm assuming talus.
How over grown and brushy is it? Or not?
Any views of the slide, even via binoculars from other peaks? I would think Giant Ledge but I don't remember a good vantage to it the last (day) time I was up there.

Twin Mtn has a decent slide, and the pictures below prove it.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/57212740/57216124dVDsqw

http://community.webshots.com/photo/57212740/57214941qLPzmr

I couldnt find any pictures of the slide on Slide Mtn.

If you look at the topo map or aerial photo you can probably trace a route up the slide. Maybe I will give it a shot this Summer. I have too many winter hikes planned in other places.

http://topozone.com/map.asp?lat=41.99861&lon=-74.38667

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=12&x=688&y=5812&z=18&w=2

The slide on the Woodland Valley side that gave the mountain it's name is very old and almost undetectable, except from a distance by the topography. I think it was a talus slide. I know a couple of people who came up that way, but none of them ever wanted to repeat the climb. It's main features are thick scrub and bad footing. There is a more recent, but much smaller slide right, next to the trail as it decends toward Cornell. I seem to recall it being pretty new when I first climbed the mountain in the seventies, and there was a ladder right up the slide. This is a slab slide. I think it keeps resliding, I seem to I remember the ladder being destoyed before they rerouted the trail off the slide.

John, your news it pretty much what I worried it would be like. Maybe, before the leaves are out it may be worth a scouting

Now, Mink. It's odd that you mentioned the slide on Twin, I was there last year, saw the slide, noted it for future fun. It was even odder when the first picture you linked to looked really familiar. Even odder than that, perusing the other pictures in the album I saw myself, on that trip last year, lurking in one of the shots.

Are we sure we haven't met?

And thanks for the suggestion of aerial photos. I don't think much beyond the topos, and for the Catskills the USGS rarely notes the bare rock areas.

The Catskills Forest: a History indicates the slide starts at the end of the south fork of Woodland creek, but it's not well described

Click to expand...

Hey Warren, why not try writing to the author of that fine work and asking him? Expalin what you want to do. Dr. Kudish has a seemingly bottomless knowledge of the area and is a very pleasant guy to boot. Write to him in care of Paul Smiths College of Forestry, he will get your letter. He does not do email.
I have been corresponding with him on other subjects, and have a letter going out to him today. He will be back in the Catskills this spring and has invited me to assist him on some of his survey hikes. I hope you've enjoyed his book as much as I have. I believe it to be a landmark piece of work.
Good Luck,
Tom

Warren, those pics arent mine, I hiked that loop just a few weeks back. I looked at those pictures just to get an idea of what equipment to bring based on terrain. I would show you my pictures but I once I again forgot to get them put on a CD. You are right that the USGS doesnt show the slides in the Catskills, but they are definitely there. Diamond Notch has some nice ones too.
Tom, thats a good idea, I think I will do that if I every have any similar questions. Thanks for the idea.

I also beleive there is a slide on Friday. Does anyone have info on that one.

Here is that aerial shot of Slide I couldnt find before. I dont think you can see Friday from it, but that slide on Friday sounds interesting.

The Friday Mountain slides (there's three of them, each above the last) can be accessed from Moon Haw Road in West Shokan. They descend the northeast face of the mountain, and can be partially seen from the summit of Cornell, if you know where to look.

To climb these slides: Climb east to pass to the south of the private inholding at the end of Moon Haw, then drop down and follow the bank of the southern (Cornell Brook?) tributary of Wittenberg Brook to about the 2000' elevation. You will be able to stay on the southern bank of the brook for most of the way. As you reach the headwall at the end of the valley, you will note a small bluff covered with evergreen trees above on your left. Below this, a small stream running through a bank of fresh sandy detritus will be noted flowing into the brook, also from your left. Follow this stream up to the first slide and continue on the same heading over the next two slides and on up the mountain. Eventually, you will have to contour left (south) to find a safe passage through the cliffs to the summit. It is best to descend back to Moon Haw via the south side of the eastern ridge of Friday, where one can usually find a herd path.

The lowest slide is a wide, deep gully, quite wet (icy in cold weather) and mostly bare of vegetation. The upper two slides are narrower and have become grown over with young saplings in the last few years. This area is usually safe, if arduous, for climbing, except during wet weather, when the loose aggregate making up the surface may decide to slide further downhill with the climber atop it. This, of course, would not be a good thing,

porky

Those slides on Friday sound good. I think I might have to go there. Porky, about how big are these slides? Thanks for your help.

I wonder if there could be some avalanches on these slides. Last year I noticed fracture lines in the snow at the slides in Diamond Notch.

Any other nice slides out there in the Catskills? If anyone has any info on that please let us know. Thanks.

Size of slides and avalanche risk?

I find it hard to qualify the dimensions of such features. I guess that the lowest slide is about four or five hundred feet long and one hundred to one-fifty wide, and the upper two slides are each about two hundred feet long and fifty feet wide. I could be off wildly on these estimates, so don't quote me.

I've never heard of a serious avalanche anywhere in the Catskills, and there would seem to be enough trees growing in and about the slides to prevent such an event in that particular area. Ted Duggan and I attempted to climb the route in January 2003. We were turned back by four to five feet of loose powder snow on the second slide. Although the stuff was too unconsolidated to allow any upward progress, it showed no sign that it wanted let go en masse. I reckoned we were (stupidly) doing everything we could to encourage an avalanche that day. Of course, I don't know if that proves anything besides our own foolish good luck,

porky

Warren, I have not done the Slide Mt slide, however, from my reading of several sources I believe that it is on the northern spur of Slide Mt. Take a look at Map #43 of the nynjtc set. From the Slide summit you will see a northern spur that extends about a half mile to the north. The slide should be a bit below the 3800' summit of this spur. The slide is actually on the east side of this north spur (corrected in a post below). John Burroughs' description of his descent of the slide can be found at this link to his essay "The Heart of the Southern Catskills". The essay covers his ascent of Wittenberg on the way to Slide. The slide descent is about 3/4 of the way through the essay. Look for the paragraph that begins "We were now not long in squaring an account with Slide, and making ready to leave."

There is an 1879 engraving that shows the slide. You can find a copy of this in Alf Evers book "The Catskills from Wilderness to Woodstock". The picture appears opposite page 513. This engraving also appears on the cover of the DEC pamphlet "Slide Mountain Wilderness" (I have a 1/99 edition of this pamphlet). The picture is from the perspective of Woodland Valley and shows the slide descending from a point a short distance north of the summit of Slide (corrected). From all accounts the slide is now forested.

I agree with Tom that you should write Michael Kudish to get a definitive description of the slide's location (to verify my interpretations of Burroughs). It may be easier to find the slide from the top rather than from the base. On the way out you could follow the Woodland Valley stream until you reach the private land boundaries. Then follow the property markings over to the Wittenberg-Slide trail to complete a loop hike.

Virtually all of the Catskill slides are talus slides. In general slab slides occur only where there is an underlying slanted or folded rock strata. All of the rock strata in the Catskills is horizontal. If you see a rock in the Catskills with a non-horizontal strata, it has become dislodged from the porous sandstone bedrock and is sliding down hill. Occasionally there is a near vertical rock ledge such as the Giant Ledge and the east face of Slide.

I've been meaning to cold call someone at Paul Smiths on another Catskill/ADK related matter for a while now. Tom, that suggestion to contact Dr. Kurdish just coalesced those two questions together. Thanks. Now I just have to read The Catskills Forest book front to back instead of using it as a reference manual.

Mark, thanks for the link to the essay. My original guess for it's location is where you put it (based on topography), but if I'm reading Dr. Kudish's map correctly he's marked a slide on the east side of the spur you mention. While I don't have that pamphlet you mention, one of the reasons I'd like to find the slide, if it's still there, is a memory of a drawing, or engraving showing the slide, perhaps the one from the pamphlet.

Porky, the east ridge of Friday was a really fun climb, I've been wanting to go back for the slides.

Warren, you are right. I consulted about a dozen references (none of which is very clear on the location of the slide), but I overlooked the map that is included in Michael Kudish's book. I was misled by a "Guide to the Catskills", 1975, published by Walking News that stated the slide was on a NW slope. The end of that north spur was the only place I could find a NW slope that descended to the Woodland Valley. The Walking News book must have a typo, it should have read NE rather NW slope.

So I have to believe Kudish's map. The slide must be on the east side of the north spur. That does jive better with the engraving that I mentioned. It would appear that the top slide is just a bit north of the true summit of Slide. This also correlates well with Burroughs' words leaving the summit: "In a few minutes we emerged at the head of the slide that had given the mountain its name." I had thought he could have made it to end of the north spur in about 10 minutes, but it would only be about 2 minutes or less to Kudish's location. Might be a little longer now as the path Burroughs found may no longer exist and the area may be overgrown. This slide location also descends to the southern most fork of the Woodland Valley stream.

Anybody wanting to find the locations of the Slide Mt or Friday slides should consider purchasing Michael Kudish book and consult the large folded map that is included.

Someone mentioned avalanches. I though I read somewhere about a small one that accured on Peakamoose road and burreid a plow truck. Does anyone know about this, I forgot were I read that.

Warren:

Here's an aerial photo from the Terraserver (June 1994); Terraserver picture, centered on the peak of the north ridge. Switch back and forth between this view and the topo-map view (small pull down above the Compass Rose on the left of the screen) to get your bearings.

You can see a trace of the ridge line from the north spur (3800') up to the north-west (3640'), but no slide.

Wait, maybe there's a very slight coloration north of the stream opening out into a fan shaped pattern. It looks like it may start around 3200' or 3300', down a very steep cliff from the col east of the north spur. Good luck.

Pb

It definitely believable that there was an avalanche near Peekamoose Mtn.
I think I have to buy that book for the map. If I go to these slides in the winter I would try and snowboard down them, maybe. Any advice on that? Thanks.

Papa Bear, thanks for the topo/aerial photo. There may be a few faint indications of the slide in this photo, but I may just be seeing pixelization. I believe the east side of the north spur is the correct location (after Warren pointed out to me that the slide is shown on Michael Kudish's map starting near the 4180' summit). It probably starts at about the 4100' contour, heads through or just west of the "M" (in "Slide Mtn" on the topo map), and then descends to the northeast to the stream shown in blue (perhaps down to the 2900' or 2600' contour to achieve the 1200'-1500' observed by Burroughs). I have been across the Wittenberg/Cornell/Slide trail about 15 times in the last 30 years and have never seen any visible indication of the slide. However, the Cornell viewpoints may not have a good perspective. This July, 1819 slide is probably well forested now.

Yeah, I'm pretty convinced it's likely grown in by now. I'm also convinced it's worth scouting out (from the Slide/Cornell trail) if only to see what 200 hundred years of growth will do.

At the very least, there should be some fun up and down scrambling to be had on Catskill-style ledges there.

Hey mink319, is that an aerial view of Slide Mountain in the Catskills? Doesn't look like it. Looks more like the gunks or perhaps the southern end of the Escarpment Trail.
Nice photo though. Did you take it?