Got fish?

Does anyone know the prevelance of fish, that are actually game fish, in the streams and rivers of the white mountains. I see very few. Are they actually in some streams and rivers? I know that some of the ponds are supposed to contain fish but what about the streams and rivers? Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Keith

Brook trout in the pemi streams/rivers... ssshhhhhhhhh.... don't tell everyone.

Most of the streams contain native brook trout. Some of the larger rivers (Swift, Ellis, Androscoggin, Saco) also contain rainbow and/or brown trout. A lot of the ponds also have brook trout; but a number have no fish at all. The NH Fish & Game web site has a list of ponds that are known to have fish. If you want more specific information, feel free to e-mail or PM me.

Keith,

This link might be what you're looking for

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fishing/fishing_forecast/FF07_Lakes_region.htm

This page tells you what species can be pulled from the water, and where you can find them.


bob

Thanks a lot everyone. I will look this information over. Its strange because I have seen some fish but not nearly as many as I think I should see. The only place I have ever seen anyone fishing is Sawyer pond.

I'll look over the information.

Thanks again,
Keith

You should see more, but acid rain, over-fishing, invasive species and a few other threats have knocked down fish populations dramatically. It is said that the area's first fishermen had such supply that baskets could be used instead of poles. We have done our level best to eradicate fish, and its a miracle there are any left at all.

That glumness finished, I wish you the best of luck; I LOVE fishing northeast rivers & streams!

One free tidbit: the Wild River. Enjoy!

--M.

Another thing to keep in mind. Wild northern fish, especially trout have amazing camo ability. They may very well be there, you just can't see them. Try looking patiently sometime with polarized sunglasses. After a while you may see movement or a shape.

ripple said:

Brook trout in the pemi streams/rivers... ssshhhhhhhhh.... don't tell everyone.

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(speaking in a whisper) really? tell me more. Is there anything North of Hellgate?

The White Mountains have some of the most underused water bodies..and I take advantage of that. One of my favorite things to do is backpack into remote ponds and flyfish. Some people don't realize how great the remote pond system is in the White Mountains. I have noticed in the last several years a major reduction in fisherman and increase in just hikers. So these places get visited but few actually fish. The White Mountain ponds have some of the best fishing anywhere in New England. Most steams have good brook trout populations. Even though most are rather sterile..they are well oxygenated and cold, so they have high amounts of trout. There are exceptions in many places where a 12 inch trout out of a stream happens. For the ponds..I caught a 3.5-4 pound remote brook trout last year, one of many like that So you just need to get out and explore. -Mattl

If you ever come to the Adirondacks let me know. I love backpacking into remote areas and fish. I know a few hotspots! Last year I brought a pole with me and there was a stream crossing with a very deep hole. I pulled out like 25 brookies in like 45 minutes. I did let them all go I can remember a hiker walking by and saying there are actually fish in here I thought the lakes and rivers were to acidic from the rain

To point out the obvious water body, the Androscoggin River is managed as a Trophy fishing water (catch and release) from Gorham to the state line. There are several major streams that feed into the river with natural brook trout. There are several guides who work the area but there isnt much fishing pressure except at the junction of the wild river.

SAR-EMT40 said:

Does anyone know the prevelance of fish, that are actually game fish, in the streams and rivers of the white mountains.

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Here's a restatement of the question for the experts:

While fishing with a highly experienced and knowledgeable guide in the High Peaks last year, I heard him remark that most ADK streams are, except for stocking, essentially sterile. I would echo the original poster's question this way:

Excluding stocked fish, how 'healthy,' measured by native fish populations, are White Mountain fisheries? If there were no stocking programs at all, how robust would native fish populations be?

The guide's comment gave me the vision of an entirely sterile river being filled exclusively with stocked fish. Such an image takes much of the fun right out of the concept of angling.

Any informed views on this?

--M.

I think most brookies are native. They aren't stocked like rainbows or browns. It's been a while since I've gone trout fishing, so I'm not a current expert, but before I got hooked on saltwater fish (makes freshwater fish seem like 'bait' ) I did a fair amount. Where there were stocked fish, brookies were uncommon. Then again, there is a reason they are called brookies ;-)

Tim

How did the guide define "sterile."
Is it a lake or stream that once had native trout populations in them that have since been extirpated. Or are they bodies of water that never had native populations and now host stocked populations.

One indication could be the need to restock after a fish kill due to summer and winter temp extremes, especially when the there is no fishing pressure due to catch and release anglers.

I am only an expert at wind knots, so I asked an expert. He has also gone the way of saltwater flyfishing....something about 36'+ striped bass on a 9wt.

The brookies in the small streams/brooks are native and for the most part plentiful. As I understand it (I am not a biologist) the streams are sterile because they are mostly bedrock and do not support the prolific insect life needed for fish to grow very big. (Acid rain may also play a factor.) A 6-8 inch brookie in a small White Mountain stream is a trophy. The state also stocks larger brookies in many bodies of water. You can usually tell the difference between wild and stocked brookies by their colors; the colors tend to be much more vivid in native fish.

Brown and rainbow trout are all non-native. These fish are generally stocked in lakes and larger rivers (Saco, Androscoggin, etc.) They were originally introduced (stocked) some time ago, and most of the fish of these species that are caught were stocked the year they were caught. However fish do "hold over" from year to year and some places the fish actually spawn in the wild. For example (and I hope I am not giving away too many secrets here) the Wild River contains some wild Rainbow Trout.

Also in some bodies of water (like the Ammonusuc (sp.?)) small atlantic salmon are stocked, in an effort to re-introduce wild salmon runs. These fish look like small brown trout.

Thanks.

I should also edit that the guide probably used the word "many" rather than "most," but the point remains the same. I also know that there are fundamental differences in the environmental factors between the Whites and the 'Daks (limestone vs. not; evergreen populations, acid rain exposure, et cetera) that bear differently on the two populations.

My underlying question, though, is to try to place the current health conditions of these watersheds in historical context. I'd guess that we're doing much better than in the polluted 50s & 60s, but that we had lost a lot of diversity and native populations compared to pre-industrialization.

But that's just a guess; I'd like to hear more empirical argument.

Thanks again.

More very interesting information. One of the things I was wondering is what are native fish in the rivers/streams and ponds. It sounds like brookies are native. Most of the other fish like the trout are only there because of stocking. I will have to look around more to see what I see. It sounds like there is a difference of opinion as too what has caused low fish stocks.

Thanks for the offer 1adam12.


Edited to state that when I remember the talk of the acid rain problem I remembered it being more of a problem in the Daks. Not in the Whites. Again that is just what I remember. I could be totally incorrect.

Thanks guys,
Keith

The Adirondacks have a much worse problem with acid rain then the Whites, since they are the first mountain range downwind of the large industial smog that comes this way. Then then Greens get it slightly better followed by the Whites. Some of the ponds in the Whites have pH problems like Cone Pond, and Kinsman Pond, most of the others are in decent shape, very good for this area, but only decent when compared to areas with limestone. Most of the streams in the White Mountains are sterile, which has been talked about. The other side of the coin for that is that almost every single steam contains wild brook trout because how clean and well oxygenated they are, but the growth is poor usually. It is almost a trade off. However, there are streams that are not sterile in the White Mountains which are scattered across the Sandwhich Range and Pemi area. These streams get this way by means of beaver activity which can help tremendously with growth potential of brook trout. The other streams that aren't sterile are streams that are much slower moving, usually much further upsteam closer to it's source. When a stream flows slower, it doesn't wash away the nutrients that help the trout like plankton. An example of this is Franconia Brook near its beaver activity above Lincoln Woods. Franconia Brook is very sterile before and coming into Franconia Falls, however when it enters the beaver areas somewhere above this it changes for a period of its length. This is common with many stream. The streams are always a lot of fun and of course beautiful. There is some wild country to explore in areas with trout far away from peaks I go to where few do not. Its all about getting out there. Dont forget the ponds, they are beyond excellent -Mattl

Hatchery fish often will have a clipped fin somewhere. I'm not sure what they are clipping these days... but those 36"+ stripers on the 9wt aren't clipped

Tim

The trout they stock have different fins clipped for the different age classes and year stocked. They go from the pectral fin to adipose and others. Then when they net or people catch them, they are able to tell which class they were. -Mattl