New Hampshire Break-Ins

As per the Lafayette thread, the plan is to compile data on break-ins at NH trailhead parking lots. When I get a few more submissions, I'll put together a spreadsheet and/or some charts and host them on my web space (no names posted with the data).


Location
Date (D-M-Y) (no more than 5 years ago)
Hours Parked (ie 6am-2pm)
Type of car (make, 1-3 yrs, 4-8 yrs, older)
Anti Theft Device (Y/N)
Type of Break In (Smash window, crow-bar door, cut through soft top, other)
Item(s) Stolen (Cash only / loose items / parts of car (stereo) / nothing)

Any suggestions are welcome.

Here's a submission form I built with the above items:

NH Trailhead Break-In Submit

Thanks for your effort!!!

It's also important to report the break-in to the state/local police - the more reports of incidents in specific areas may force them to concentrate patrols in those areas.

Bobby said:

It's also important to report the break-in to the state/local police - the more reports of incidents in specific areas may force them to concentrate patrols in those areas.

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Definitely (as well as it's critical for insurance claims).

Rocket,

I've been asked about this. Is the purpose of your gathering the information so that you'll have it in one place and have accumulated numbers in order to influence the authorities to increase their efforts to catch the perps?

Assuming people report it already, the cops know this. They certainly are aware of the problem trailheads. My guess would be that you are gathering info to keep us informed of which are the dangerous parking lots, right? If so, I think this is more detail then is needed for this purpose.

How is knowing this additional info going to help the hiking community?

I'm interested in the trends we might be able to find from this...I'm not expecting the data to in some way take law into our own hands etc...however, if we're able to find a trend, it might be worthwhile to show concern in bulk to hopefully get more attention paid toward what seems to be an increasingly troublesome problem NH.

While the police are excellent at what they do, they don't always have the time or resources to focus on relatively minor problems. The last time I did a project like this, we were able to find a few trends which led to better awareness for potential victims as well as busting the ring.

rocket21 said:

I'm interested in the trends we might be able to find from this...I'm not expecting the data to in some way take law into our own hands etc...however, if we're able to find a trend, it might be worthwhile to show concern in bulk to hopefully get more attention paid toward what seems to be an increasingly troublesome problem NH.

While the police are excellent at what they do, they don't always have the time or resources to focus on relatively minor problems. The last time I did a project like this, we were able to find a few trends which led to better awareness for potential victims as well as busting the ring.

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Positively Rocket, you go for it. Any information is a good thing. I'm headed out now for 2 days in the Caribou Range (unknown area for me) and would love to have some info on trailhead breakins in that area. I just hope I can keep my truck off your list.

Maddy said:

"The squeaky wheel get the grease"
"United we stand, divided we fall!"
If we can show a respectful, united front to the police, along with a wonderful spread sheet, etc we just might get their attention and their help.
Unfortunately, these are considered petty crimes and they might be "petty" to the law but they certainly are not "petty" to us.

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Ah, but they are petty to us (the big us). None of us (the big us) would be at all happy with the increase in our taxes necessary to pursue, prevent, or prosecute every little petty crime. It's much cheaper, albeit inconvenient when it happens to us (you and me), to have insurance, and file a claim when you have a loss.

I have a feeling the police will always have 10, maybe 20 times the information we have. If you're trying to establish a pattern, you're probably better off browsing the police blotters and gathering your data from there, rather than relying on internet board postings.

Tim

As a consumer of this board's information (among other things), I would certainly find it helpful to know that, for example, there are lots of break-ins at 19-Mile Brook, while there are almost none at Pinkham Notch.

Even if rocket21 were NOT trained in presenting statistics, the info would still be of value. And maybe he is!

Thanks, rocket21, and (as Emilio Lizardo would say) more power to you.

--M.

To be clear -- I want this to be successful. The caution is in the "Oh, rocket21 is not posting break-ins, therefore none are happening (or, none at trail head XXX)". The information we seek should be publicly available already from the police. To not take advantage of all available data is to not paint a complete picture.

You also have to weigh the cost of what you leave in your car, versus the deductible of your insurance policy and the impact filing a claim has. Is it cheaper for you in the long run to leave your doors unlocked, thus denying yourself a claim? If you have a $500 deductible, and a $100 item is stolen from an unlocked car, it's cheaper than fixing the car and losing the item anyway - typically those fall into two claims anyway - damage to the car covered by auto comprehensive and loss of property covered by homeowners -- with two deductibles, you likely will get nothing from the insurance company.

What will be interesting to me is whether or not stuff was in plain sight when a car was broken into. I suspect that most people put stuff out of sight (trunk) and I suspect that some thieves know this. Still they don't bother because they don't know what they will find.

So, lock it, and hide stuff in the trunk, or leave it unlocked and empty of valuables, and I'd guess you'll get left alone.

I would also ask the state police about the value of photographic evidence of thieves, before staking out the lot for the day. I've heard that given the advances in digital photography and photoshop, it's no longer useful as evidence. So be prepared to testify as well, perhaps.

In summary, I admire and support the efforts to thwart the thieves, but don't want anyone to get hurt, or burned by the data collected.

Tim

Help folks! Between here and another forum, I only have one submission so far

--M. said:

I would certainly find it helpful to know that, for example, there are lots of break-ins at 19-Mile Brook, while there are almost none at Pinkham Notch.

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I can tell you that right now, without gathering any statistics.

If you read the past threads you'll find that it's very cyclical, with some spots being hit repeatedly for a period and then being left alone. Different gangs hit the lots, then they get caught and/or move on. It's usually locals and the cops have a good idea of who they are.

-dave-

rocket21 said:

Help folks! Between here and another forum, I only have one submission so far

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Though I think your idea is great and your enthusiasm admirable and I look forward to the results . . . your above statement is the hole I see in this "project". VFTT, though it is "home" to so many of us, and the rest of the online hiking world is but a small part of the larger hiking community. So, you are polling only a TINY percentage of hikers and so those with break-in experiences will be also therefore a TINY percentage of all those experiencing the thefts.

I second the suggestion to try and contact the local police and trying to get someone to give you the more abundant information you are seeking.

Good Luck, I do think it is a great idea . . . I just don't think you will get the volume of data needed for a thorough analysis on online boards. Just my 2 cents.

sli74

If I get some time, I may do some datamining from conditions/trip reports and start populating that way. It would take way too much time to get police reports (going after each town with trailheads, as well as state police) to make it worthwhile.

--M. said:

Even if rocket21 were NOT trained in presenting statistics, the info would still be of value.

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Not necessarily. Poor data yields poor statistics which can lead to poor conclusions.

This is not a criticism of rocket21 in any way. The data that we can collect from web reports is likely to be much smaller and poorer than the data available to the police. It is also likely to be biased.

Doug
Who is not a statistician, but does know something about data and statistics.

DougPaul said:

Not necessarily. Poor data yields poor statistics which can lead to poor conclusions.

This is not a criticism of rocket21 in any way. The data that we can collect from web reports is likely to be much smaller and poorer than the data available to the police. It is also likely to be biased.

Doug
Who is not a statistician, but does know something about data and statistics.

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Correct, this is by no means scientific. I would by no means do quarterly sales forecast off data like this. Nonetheless, there are already a few submissions since my last posting (I updated the first post in this thread with a web form link)...compiled data is more useful than nothing at all.

rocket21 said:

It would take way too much time to get police reports (going after each town with trailheads, as well as state police) to make it worthwhile.

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This is probably the only way you WILL get enough data to make this worthwhile. A quick search of the forum for "theft" or "vandalism" or "break in" etc yield only at most 6 or 7 results and not all of those are in the Whites. A sample set that small for a national forest that big is as DougPaul said, a good way to draw poor conclusions (or no conclusions at all). VFTT, and even all the hiking communities online are such a small piece of the pie. Data needs to be explored from other sources if this is to yield useful information.

People wondering what trail heads have been troublesome in the past would do well to read this thread: http://vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7150&highlight=theft

David Metsky said:

Assuming people report it already, the cops know this. They certainly are aware of the problem trailheads.

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Agreed, but a percentage of people don't report car breaks. The items stolen aren't valuable, or belief (probably correct) that the property won't be recovered, and most insurance policies cover glass replacement.

rocket21 said:

While the police are excellent at what they do, they don't always have the time or resources to focus on relatively minor problems.

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In the areas we're discussing, I would think it's a resource problem. We don't see many police cars because the police departments are small, with maybe one or two officers on patrol at any time.

rocket21 said:

It would take way too much time to get police reports (going after each town with trailheads, as well as state police) to make it worthwhile.

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I if you call the local police department, they will give you the information we need. Police reports are public record, as are crime statistics.

We can't stop the break-ins, but individually we can take steps to lower the chances of being victimized. Leave your ashtray open, many people keep change there. Leave valuables at home, or stash them in the trunk before getting to the trailhead.

Good luck with this Rocket, if I can help, let me know.

Bobby said:

Good luck with this Rocket, if I can help, let me know.

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Thank you...if its determined that we're not getting enough data off the net, maybe a group effort will be necessary to get police logs...one issue with this though is that they don't always contain enough of the necessary information to try to find trends. In previous experience, I used customized reports to make sure we were getting better optics vs. more of a standardized police report.

Another possible project might be to compile tips - there have been some interesting techniques in recent posts, such as leaving notes, leaving ashtrays open, etc.