Selfish egomaniacs destroy fragile habitat on Katahdin.

It just worked for me

dr_wu002 said:

Why were the onlookers such cowards? if people cared so much they woulda stopped these morons. I'm sure a bunch of hikers coulda overcome two yahoos. Serious -- beat the hell out of them if you care. I would have. Americans are cowards.

Click to expand...

Dude, I hear ya. It seems like I'm the one who always has to tell the morons talking during movies to shut up, etc. We no longer have backbones. However, I think the right course of action here would be for the campers to act all impressed, and ask to have their picture taken and get an autograph.

Saying americans are cowards is a is an unfair statement. Maybe certain groups of americans are cowards but to use a blanket statement like that is uncalled for. Most of the cowards who don't say anything or "kick some butt" when it is deserved, are affraid of lawyers and being sued. So easy to say what you would have done. Would it have been worth it to "beat the hell out of them" only to get sued. They were hurting some plants which is a terrible thing, but they were not beating up a little old lady. That would deserve some butt kickin on the spot. Maybe getting info and letting the rangers take care of it would be a better course of action.

WalksWithBlackflies said:

Dude, I hear ya. It seems like I'm the one who always has to tell the morons talking during movies to shut up, etc. We no longer have backbones. However, I think the right course of action here would be for the campers to act all impressed, and ask to have their picture taken and get an autograph.

Click to expand...

That's actually a pretty good idea. "Hey dude, what yer doing is awesome, can I get yer name and address and phone number and stuff...?"

Maybe saying that all Americans are cowards is a harsh blanket statement. But too much these days people are content to grumble but hesitant to take a stand. I don't think it was always like this either. Maybe living in a "litigation-happy" society has changed this but I'm skeptical. Maybe after becoming a super-power we had less and less to fight for. There are still some topics that seem to unilaterally rile people up without a problem. But too many topics these days people are complacent, possibly even apathetic about -- and many of these topics are worth a little blood, sweat and tears.

In the grand scheme of things, walking around on a bunch of things ain't gonna hurt the world. But it's called pride... and we need to show that we still have it. It's also called collective mindset -- if enough people realized that, "hey, this ain't right" that attitude would spread a lot faster.

-Dr. Wu

I understand too many people are willing to let things go. Knowing how to use force also comes with the burden of knowing when to use force. Not kicking thier butts doesn't make someone a coward, whinning about it and not doing anything at all, that is a coward. Walking on flowers does not derserve a butt whoppin. It does deserve the fines and other penalties.

dvbl said:

... I spot four rules which took a beating the last time I was there:

9. TRAFFIC: No person may operate any vehicle within the Park so as to endanger any person or property, nor operate a vehicle in excess of 20 miles per hour, or the posted speed limit, whichever is less.
--Lots of folks think 20mph is a suggestion

16. DISTURBANCES: No person may create a disturbance that impairs the enjoyment of the Park by others. Campground quiet hours are posted and enforced.
--Lots of folks can't shut up when they should. Especially when combined with rule #27.

25. AUDIO DEVICES: Audio devices such as radios, televisions, cassette players, or cellular telephones may not be operated within the Park.
--next

27. LIQUOR AND DRUGS: General laws of the State pertaining to liquor and drugs apply within the Park. Maine law prohibits drinking of alcoholic beverages in public places.
--yeah, good luck

I would guess these four rules above are regularly ignored, or at least stretched.

Click to expand...

I've been to Baxter Park a dozen times in the last 15 years and have quite the opposite impression about such rules.

You're a fool to drive much past 20 on most stretches. Cell phones don't get a signal in most of the park. Alcohol may be consumed within the park, the wiggle room being what is private and what is public. But, abuse it and any of the others and you'll eventually get tossed out, in some cases permanently.

Stan said:

You're a fool to drive much past 20 on most stretches.

Click to expand...

There is something weird about the dirt roads up there. The highest speed I hit was about 30, I wanted to go faster but the surface was just not right. Lots of washboard bits keep you -under- 20. Not to mention there are lots of zero visibility corners.. Strangely enough I tend to agree 20 is about the right speed on most of the roads that any of us will ever be driving on in that park!!! This is completely different from the logging roads down towards Stratton where there are lots of stretches that you can hit 50

I just got done reading this thread & viewing the video

TJ aka Teej said:

Selfish idiots destroy rare plants on Katahdin.

Click to expand...

Really? What rare plant where destroyed?

TJ aka Teej said:

They laid out big tarps (so their chutes wouldn't snag) and dragged them across fragile plants and nesting areas for Bicknell's Thrush .

Click to expand...

I didn't see ANY Bicknell's Thrush habitat in the video

TJ aka Teej said:

They then cleared brush for a runway,

Click to expand...

Runway? Looked like 2 steps and he was aloft.


I'm not condoning their actions, but I think the facts presented here are questionable! I understand the emotion involved when hearing about something like this, but, any time someone starts out with "rare plants" & "Bicknell's Thrush" I tend to be skeptical... Sorry.

I guess I don't think like most hikers - I read the post and watched the video - and I am decided I am really not going to lose any sleep tonight.

Two different issues going on if you ask me:

1- Stomping on alpine vegetation. Not cool. I watched the video and there is a tarp layed out over the rocks in an area with some sort of vegetation growing. I'm no expert on this flora and fauna stuff ... just know you shouldn't be stepping on it.

2- Parasailing. Please, give me a break. This kind of reminds me of grumpy townsfolk constantly going off on skateboarders. What do they do? They get together and enact a local ordinance saying "No skateboarding" and then tell the kids not to skateboard because it's illegal. How has parasailing ever hurt anyone except maybe the parasailers themselves? It's probably against Park Rules and Regs because of the drain on manpower it would cause for Rangers to be constantly doing SAR on these folks if it ever got popular in the Park. As an isolated incident ... who cares?

Mark S said:

2- Parasailing. Please, give me a break. This kind of reminds me of grumpy townsfolk constantly going off on skateboarders. What do they do? They get together and enact a local ordinance saying "No skateboarding" and then tell the kids not to skateboard because it's illegal. How has parasailing ever hurt anyone except maybe the parasailers themselves? It's probably against Park Rules and Regs because of the drain on manpower it would cause for Rangers to be constantly doing SAR on these folks if it ever got popular in the Park. As an isolated incident ... who cares?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately it all has to do with liability. If a skateboarder gets hurt they could plausibly sue the hell out of a town. Same with Baxter, some ambitious parasailer gets hurt, then he could conceivably sue. Winning is another matter, but the fact is there could be court proceedings. Welcome to the letigious happy society we now live in.

Brian

Interesting post on youtube by someone presenting as the glider:

"quetawblo (1 day ago)
For four years I have met with the rangers to inform them of my presence and my intention as I tried to complete this flight. I spoke with rangers after landing and discussed the flight. Numerous hikers shared careful I had been to not damage any sensitive plants. The rangers asked me to notify my flying friends additional flyers would be ticketed like out of bounds campers, climbers,etc. I also posted the rangers request on the local patagliding list serve. dreams come true, yeah! "

State employees avoids $200 fine

Sorry to ressurrect a contentious post but here is closure to it. ( no need on my behalf to reiterate what already has been said previously)

http://bangornews.com/news/t/penobscot.aspx?articleid=159638&zoneid=183

The above article has more details


http://www.wcsh6.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=79934

I hope the link works, but the gist of the article is that the park rules do not specifically state paragliding is not allowed so therefore the glider pliots were not guilty. They were both State employees.

Then again I expect that there would be many folks who would ante up the $200.

Live Free or Die... Justice served.

Although I have often refered to Zippy as a dog in the past. I heard the salesperson refer to her as a canine, and hence now legal in Baxter State Park. Oh, happy day!