Thoughs between Garmin GPS units
- Thread starter DaveSunRa
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DougPaul
Well-known member
To a certain extent, this is not a matched pair: matched pairs would be eTrex Vista HCx vs GPSMAP 60CSx or eTrex Legend HCx vs GPSMAP 60Cx. (The Vista and CSx have barometric altitude and magnetic compass sensors.)
Feature comparisons for Garmin GPSes can be found at https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145.
An item not covered in these comparisons is external antenna capability--the 60Cx have a jack for an external antenna, I'm not sure about the eTrex C series. (The original eTrexes did not have an external antenna jack.)
Another item that is frequently over overlooked is the eTrex C series does not have an RS232 interface--absolutely vital in some applications. (Both have a USB interface.)
I have read an early amateur quick side-by-side comparison of the eTrex Legend HCx and a 60Cx. Both appeared to give similar results in a degraded signal environment. This report also identifies what appear to be some software bugs, but Garmin has a history of correcting such bugs in their software updates.
The Garmin H series appears to use the MediaTek MT3 GPS chipset. The data available from the web is limited, but its performance appears to be similar to that of the SiRFstarIII GPS chipset used in the 60Cx and 76Cx. It is also reported to be cheaper.
Doug
Feature comparisons for Garmin GPSes can be found at https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=145.
An item not covered in these comparisons is external antenna capability--the 60C
Another item that is frequently over overlooked is the eTrex C series does not have an RS232 interface--absolutely vital in some applications. (Both have a USB interface.)
I have read an early amateur quick side-by-side comparison of the eTrex Legend HCx and a 60C
The Garmin H series appears to use the MediaTek MT3 GPS chipset. The data available from the web is limited, but its performance appears to be similar to that of the SiRFstarIII GPS chipset used in the 60C
Doug
darren
Poobah Emeritus
OK for like a decade now I have been saying that I was going to get a GPS receiver and I have just never gotten around to it. I actually spent some time the other day looking at GPS units. I want to be able to use it for kayaking as well as hiking so water proofing is a requirement and the ability to float would be a big plus. I was actually looking at the 76CSx over the 60 CSx mainly because the 76 floats. I guess I could use the biner hole on the 60 and just lash it to the boat though. They are the same price and the functionality seems to be the same.
I was ready to make the plunge, but then I checked out the maps and now it looks like I wont be. I need the blue water maps for kayaking and the topo maps for hiking. The bluewater america map is $150 and the America topo map is $117. So $350 for the gps unit and then another $270 for maps. Nuts. Looks like I will stick to map and compass.
- darren
ps: yes, I would have still used my map and compass if I had gotten the GPS.
pps: for Dave's original question, in my limited GPS experience I would not buy a unit that does not have an electronic compass. It is nice to know what direction you are facing without having to move. The eTrex Legend HCx does not have an electronic compass and the 60 CSx does.
I was ready to make the plunge, but then I checked out the maps and now it looks like I wont be. I need the blue water maps for kayaking and the topo maps for hiking. The bluewater america map is $150 and the America topo map is $117. So $350 for the gps unit and then another $270 for maps. Nuts. Looks like I will stick to map and compass.
- darren
ps: yes, I would have still used my map and compass if I had gotten the GPS.
pps: for Dave's original question, in my limited GPS experience I would not buy a unit that does not have an electronic compass. It is nice to know what direction you are facing without having to move. The eTrex Legend HCx does not have an electronic compass and the 60 CSx does.
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darren
Poobah Emeritus
DougPaul said:
Doug - what are the applications that can not use USB?
Thanks
- darren
DougPaul said:
Vista HCx and GPSMAP 60 CSx pretty much look the same ! (besides microcard, weight, battery life, etc. oh and tide tables too
)Damn, I new they would extend it to their Rino line.
Jay H
New member
Darren, as far as paddling goes, I have the lanyard with my old Etrex Vista and I simply wrap the lanyard to my front deck rigging and it works fine and tethered to the boat.
Jay
Jay
Paradox
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You just do not need it for outdoor use with the 60CSx. The only time I have used my external antenna for my 60CSx is down in the basement of my house. Now that I have pretty much nailed down the location of my basement, I do not need to use it there either.Motabobo said:Who needs external antenna with the "new" x chipset ?
DougPaul
Well-known member
I understand that the 60CSx floats with lithium batts* or with a neopreme case. The 60Cdarren said:
* Lithium batts give too high a voltage for the 60/76C
These maps are not locked and can be used on any Garmin mapping GPS, so they should go on an upgrade GPS. BTW, those look like list prices. They are generally available at better prices: eg tvnav.com sells bluechart americas for $110 and topo us 2008 for $85. (standard caveat: no connection with this company.)I was ready to make the plunge, but then I checked out the maps and now it looks like I wont be. I need the blue water maps for kayaking and the topo maps for hiking. The bluewater america map is $150 and the America topo map is $117. So $350 for the gps unit and then another $270 for maps. Nuts. Looks like I will stick to map and compass.
Magnetic compass on the GPS is a matter of taste. Some draw extra current from the batts and accuracy isn't all that great: typ ~5deg. You have to hold the GPS level and sighting also isn't that good either. The eTrex Vista HCx does have a compass and barometric sensor. (Some don't like the fact that you cannot choose between the barometric altitude and the GPS altitude on most displays. Annoying in a pressurized aircraft...)
Any time you are moving, the GPS can generate a compass display from the velocity vector. (The magnetic compass is only used when stationary.)
FWIW, I virtually never use the magnetic compass on my GPS, but prefer the barometric altitude (more accurate) over the GPS altitude. The two come as a sensor package (S in the model name). (Yes, I carry and use a mechanical compass or two. Had to say that to quiet the traditionalists...
) Doug
DougPaul
Well-known member
Anything that uses NMEA (National Marine Electronics Association) format data. NMEA is a text format which is only supported on RS232.darren said:
Specifically, such applications as a boat autopilot expects NMEA data over an RS232 link. Also a number of the older consumer digital mapping programs can talk NMEA, but not Garmin binary data over USB (most have been upgraded).
Doug
Peakbagr
Well-known member
Darren,
I have a 60CSx and have used it intensively for 17 or 18 months. I have never lost signal. Thats in the thickest of bushwhacks, under dense, wet, snowy canopy. The removable memory is a huge plus. I've got all the ADKs, all the Catskills, most of upstate NY, and all the mountainous topos of the rest of New England in there, as well as most of the National Parks our west I'm liable to visit.
The color screen has nice contrast and daylight visibility. Holds upto 50 routes, and 10,000 trackpoints. I don't use many of the other features yet, it does so much I'm still scratching the surface of its many ancillary features.
I have a good friend who's one of my GPS mentors. He has the 76CSx. His experience is the same as mine. He got the 76 instead of the 60 as he they own 6 canoes and 4 kayaks, and for him, the floating capacity was more important than the size.
For me, the smaller size and button layout of the 60's vs the 76's are more important than the floatability as the 60 is waterproof to - - depth, and if attach it to the boat, floating is less of an issue.
I mentioned this some place else....If it weren't for the cost, I'd have a 2nd 60CSx for the car and as a backup.
By the way, the Garmin software is necessary to have in the unit, but NG TOPO and its small upgrade package is a necessity to have on the computer IMHO.
PB
I have a 60CSx and have used it intensively for 17 or 18 months. I have never lost signal. Thats in the thickest of bushwhacks, under dense, wet, snowy canopy. The removable memory is a huge plus. I've got all the ADKs, all the Catskills, most of upstate NY, and all the mountainous topos of the rest of New England in there, as well as most of the National Parks our west I'm liable to visit.
The color screen has nice contrast and daylight visibility. Holds upto 50 routes, and 10,000 trackpoints. I don't use many of the other features yet, it does so much I'm still scratching the surface of its many ancillary features.
I have a good friend who's one of my GPS mentors. He has the 76CSx. His experience is the same as mine. He got the 76 instead of the 60 as he they own 6 canoes and 4 kayaks, and for him, the floating capacity was more important than the size.
For me, the smaller size and button layout of the 60's vs the 76's are more important than the floatability as the 60 is waterproof to - - depth, and if attach it to the boat, floating is less of an issue.
I mentioned this some place else....If it weren't for the cost, I'd have a 2nd 60CSx for the car and as a backup.
By the way, the Garmin software is necessary to have in the unit, but NG TOPO and its small upgrade package is a necessity to have on the computer IMHO.
PB
DougPaul
Well-known member
Anyone who wants performance in the worst conditions or the highest possible accuracies. For instance, I have used an external when intentionally mapping a route with my 60CSx. The bakeoff tests suggested higher accuracy with the external antenna than without (with the GPS mounted on a pack strap). On the other hand, if you carry your GPS mounted on top of your head or on top of a pole, it wouldn't make any difference.Motabobo said:Who needs external antenna with the "new" x chipset ?
Looks to me like Garmin is changing their entire line over to the new "high sensitivity" GPS chipsets.
Doug
DougPaul
Well-known member
You can certainly look at the units at a number of retail stores. Not the same as using one however...DaveSunRa said:
Don't know if this is your first GPS, but if not: GPSes are complicated (but amazing) little beasts. It will likely take you weeks to learn its details and quirks. Use it when you drive to the store, walk the dog, hike, etc. By using it when you don't need it, you will get used to it so that you really know how to use it if and when it becomes critical.
Doug
DougPaul
Well-known member
This brings up a difference between the eTrex C line and the 60/76 line. The best orientation for the eTrex C line (internal patch antenna) is flat, as on a deck, and the best orientation for the 60/76 line (internal quad helix antenna) is vertical. The high sensitivity GPS chipset units should be ok in either orientation with a good skyview (eg at sea), but it could make a difference with a poor skyview (eg under heavy trees and/or in a narrow valley).Peakbagr said:
A possible confusion here: Only Garmin (Mapsource) software can load maps into a Garmin GPS. Both Garmin and 3rd-party (eg NG TOPO!) can exchange waypoints, routes, and tracks.
There is additional firmware which runs in the GPS and in the GPS chipset. Available only from Garmin. (Updates are free.)
Doug
That's interesting, you know where I carry mine year round ? In my pocketDougPaul said:
Never lost signal (not even once) and I compared my tracklogs with my friend who does own the exact same model than me (he carries it on his chest with the provided clip though). The difference is "not much" really...around 5 feet. Is it that much ?
DougPaul
Well-known member
Basic use isn't hard and is pretty similar on all GPSes. It gets a bit more complicated if you want to use more of the features. If you are good with technical widgits, you'll be fine. If not, you can learn a habitable subset.DaveSunRa said:
The battery lifetimes are shown in the Garmin web-based comparison that I posted earlier. 25 vs 18 hrs. Longer is certainly better, but both are long enough that I wouldn't consider it a dominant factor. If you really want a long battery life, you turn it off between fixes--you can get weeks this way. The only real reasons for leaving it on are you need continuous guidance (eg boating in heavy fog) or want to record a continuous track.
Doug
Papa Bear
New member
A related question
I have a related question.
I have a Garmin 60CS and I'm reasonable happy with it. But I'm also jealous of the 60CSX with it's greater sensitivity.
But before I shell out another $200 - $300 I would ask - why not wait for the next generation:
Question: When will the next generation be here? I want high sensitivity (like maybe twice the 60CSX) and greater accuracy (like 1 - 2 meters)?
Will I get that in the next few years in a consumer grade unit?
It doesn't hurt to ask.
I have a related question.
I have a Garmin 60CS and I'm reasonable happy with it. But I'm also jealous of the 60CSX with it's greater sensitivity.
But before I shell out another $200 - $300 I would ask - why not wait for the next generation:
Question: When will the next generation be here? I want high sensitivity (like maybe twice the 60CSX) and greater accuracy (like 1 - 2 meters)?
Will I get that in the next few years in a consumer grade unit?
It doesn't hurt to ask.
DougPaul
Well-known member
In the bakeoff comparisons, we carried simultaneous multiple GPSes in different configurations to make fairly rigorous comparisons.Motabobo said:That's interesting, you know where I carry mine year round ? In my pocket
Carrying the GPS in your pocket damages the GPSes skyview. If you still get adequate performance, fine. If you need better performace or lose lock, mount the GPS in a better location or use an external antenna mounted in a good location.
No matter how you carry your GPS and whatever antenna you use, there are places where it will become inaccurate and/or lose lock. There are fewer of these places if you carry the GPS in a clear location or use an external antenna mounted in a clear location.
Doug
DougPaul
Well-known member
I was in the same situation until we did the bakeoff comparisons. The bakeoff comparisons along with the ability to use a 2 GB map memory chip sealed the deal for me. And now that I have had them both for a while, I still feel that it was a worthwhile upgrade.Papa Bear said:
5-10 years. Upgraded satellites will transmit at higher power levels and there is a second civilian frequency in the works. Dual frequency receivers will allow direct measurment of the ionospheric delays (currently the biggest source of error).
Probably not. IMO, 60/76C
You might also ask if you seriously need that level of accuracy. (10 meters is more than adequate for hiking). Many seem to be obsessed with accuracy for accuracy's sake. (And many of these same people are ignorant enough to believe the EPE (accuracy) numbers, which means that they don't understand GPS accuracy...)
My guess is that there aren't likely to be improvments in the next year or so that will tempt me to upgrade. Look at what Garmin is doing with their line--broadening the range of (often less functional) consumer units. They might make a 60/76C
No, but:
"I've got blisters on my fingers!!!"*
from answering this flood of questions...
* no not literally, but the fingers are tiring...
Doug
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