Anyone out there know where the true summit is for Whiteface (NH). I was there yesterday and while the USGS marker is firmly planted on what I knew was considered the south summit (ledges), I thought I remembered the true summit being somewhere in the woods on the rollins trail. My friend had a new AMC map and it shows the summit "triangle" at the junction of the blueberry ledge and Mcrillis trails, but when I got home and checked my older maps, it shows the triangle a bit further down on the Rollins trail, as I mentioned earlier. Anyone know if / when it was changed?
Whiteface (NH) true summit
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Kevin Rooney
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Jasonst said:
"I thought I remembered the true summit being somewhere in the woods on the rollins trail."
Not so much in the woods as beside the trail as you head over towards Passaconaway on the Rollins. Not too far past the jct with the Sleeper trail -
Papa Bear
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You shoud be aware that the triangle on the map is used to signify the position of the triangulation station (usually, if erroneously, referred to as a "bench mark"), not (necessarily) the highest point on the mountain.Kevin Rooney said:
The stations are generally placed as near the high point as possible, but they would be moved to a lower point which has better view lines when necessary. This is because the means of classic triangulation which established the positions of these spots (and ultimately where to place them on a map) was line of sight - i.e. you would sight the other stations in the region - often with towers topped by lights and viewed at night when visibility and atmospheric disturbances were minimal.
In the case of Whiteface it's obvious you want to put it on the ledges where you can see half the southern Whites as opposed to the true summit where you can see nothing.
Folks who bag the triangulation station thinking they're bagging the peak, may be in fior a surprise in a number of cases.
EDIT: the AMC may not follow the map standards defined by the USGS and they may put the triangle where ever they feel like. USGS maps obviously follow the standard I described.
The true summit is on the Rollins Trail about 1/10 - 2/10 mile from the south summit ledges. Last August, there was a cairn there:
Tim
Tim
onestep
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albee said:Wilderness Area
arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
RoySwkr
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If you look at the 15' quad, there is a survey marker at the S summit 3985 and a 4000' contour on N summit
http://docs.unh.edu/NH/choc58nw.jpg
If you look at the 7.5' quad, you will see 4000' contours both places although the BM not being on highest point is only 3994
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=43.93538&lon=-71.4055&datum=nad27&u=4&layer=DRG&s=24
I don't have the new AMC maps but if triangle is on S summit there will be red faces
There used to be a sign on a tree at the N summit, if you look closely you can still see the bolt holes, and a search of this forum will find photos of the tree for you to take up and compare
http://docs.unh.edu/NH/choc58nw.jpg
If you look at the 7.5' quad, you will see 4000' contours both places although the BM not being on highest point is only 3994
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=43.93538&lon=-71.4055&datum=nad27&u=4&layer=DRG&s=24
I don't have the new AMC maps but if triangle is on S summit there will be red faces
There used to be a sign on a tree at the N summit, if you look closely you can still see the bolt holes, and a search of this forum will find photos of the tree for you to take up and compare
Tim Seaver
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RoySwkr said:
Look for the tiny face lost in the "Wilderness"
(Pretty sure it's on the East side of the trail if this is indeed the summit tree)
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Kevin Rooney
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Tim Seaver Look for the tiny face lost in the "Wilderness" ;)[/QUOTE said:
Tim Seaver
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And just to be clear, I did not carve the face, it was already there - the pic is from the W48x9 adventure. There are enough people out there cutting and defacing trees already
(and that's just the FS!)
(and that's just the FS!)
kmorgan
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Jasonst said:
Here's what I show on the NG topo Software:
Kevin
Mike P.
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If you travel between Dicey's Mill & the Kate Sleeper Trail you go close enough to the summit to count it on the 4K list. If you get to the Junction of the Kate Sleeper Trail, IMO it makes sense to see the views from the South Summit too.
On my three trips (so far) I've gone up Blueberry Ledges & down from Passaconaway a different way each time heading back to Ferncroft.
On my three trips (so far) I've gone up Blueberry Ledges & down from Passaconaway a different way each time heading back to Ferncroft.
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