winter/mountaineering boots question

Folks--I bet this question has been asked and answered before but the archive is huge, so....

I want to get back into winter hiking this year. The boots I used to use, which I bought more than 10 years ago are stiff plastic outers with a soft liner, they come up to mid shin and lace up somewhat like a ski boot. I have liked them in the past because they are so warm and I can use my step-in crampons with them--I last used these boots climbing Mont Blanc a few years ago.

Question: These days, are people more apt to use the "newer-fangled" winter boots that I see labeled as mountaineering boots in REI, for example Lowa Mountain Expert GTX Mountaineering Boots? These look flexible and comfortable and still warm. I'm planning on hiking in the Whites this winter and Mt. Hood early next year--I'm wondering if I should make the switch?

Thoughts?

Consider getting an insulated boot like Salomon's B32, Columbia's Bugabootoo, or an excellent buy - Cabella's Avalanche. Others make similar ones - look for a steel shank, 400 grams of Thinsulate insulation, and a semi-rigid box toe so that your snowshoes bindings will work well without pinching your toes. Except for very cold climbs, or climbs with lots of cramponing (Washington and Adams sometimes are like that) these work well in the WMNF.

Keep your plastics for Hood though. You'll appreciate the finer crampon control they give you over the insulated snow boot.

A bunch of us bought the Cabela's Avalanche boot last winter and are very happy with them. (They are selling the Avalanche II at half price on their web site, size 6 only.) They called their old model a "pac boot" but it wasn't, as far as my interpretation of what a pac boot is. I noticed that they don't refer to their new one a pack boot, even though the look is very similar to what I bought. The new Cabela's catalog shows a few other models that look good, too: the Winter Sport Boot has the same 400 gram Thinsulate, waterproof, similar pricing, and there is also their GTX400 for a little more money. It took a little leap for me to buy from Cabela's, as I thought the only sold gear for hunters and fishermen, but I got beyond that false sense and now I enjoy looking through their catalog, even though I don't fish or hunt. (I don't like fish and don't each much meat.)

carla said:

Question: These days, are people more apt to use the "newer-fangled" winter boots that I see labeled as mountaineering boots in REI, for example Lowa Mountain Expert GTX Mountaineering Boots? These look flexible and comfortable and still warm. I'm planning on hiking in the Whites this winter and Mt. Hood early next year--I'm wondering if I should make the switch?

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Honestly, this is a big YMMV question because only you know how cold your feet get and what fits your feet.

But IMO, the only benefits of double plastics are 1)Extra warmth 2)"Easier" to keep warm and dry on extended overnight trips (I say easier because you can still put leather boots inside your sleeping bag just like you would your plastic's bootie - with a single boot it's just bulkier and you can't really wear it to bed, like the bootie)

Single mountaineering boots like the Lowas usually have the benefits of

-greater feel, especially on rocks and regular hiking on dry trails.
-more flexible upper (makes for easier/better French crampon technique when rolling ankles)
-stiff sole (essential for step kicking)
-most have heel/toe bails to work with step-in crampons (try them with your step-ins to see how they fit)
-lighter

What I found with my plastics was that they were too warm and my feet were always cold because I was chilling them with sweat. I sold my plastics after I got some insulated leathers, which are in the same class as the Lowas you mentioned. I've used them for winter ascents in the Whites and summer ascents of Cascade volcanos including Hood this past year (in our group in Hood most of us were using single leather boots).

edit: I haven't met too many who miss their plastics

My experience is limited to the little mountains here in the northeast. As a result the value of my comments is probably limited as well. But I'll toss in my $.02.

The Columbia Titanium Series includes a number of good choices. I have the Ice Field model, which is a high boot. These are better insulated than many of the other Columbia models. I was told it has the stiffest sole Columbia offers. It works well with snowshoes and strap-on crampons. I've used mine through two winters of hiking, roughly 800 miles, without a complaint. They’re still in great shape but the laces need to be replaced. They are very warm and comfortable. The high design provides added protection from a crampon in the leg – a nice plus. I’ve kicked myself more than once.

They seem to work well on the little mountains we have in the northeast.

Sorel Conquest

For your consideration: I just bought a pair of Sorel Conquest so it is too early to tell how they will work-out. However:

They have 400 grams of Thinsulate insulation. They are fairly stiff so they should be ok for strap-on crampons. Yet, they are flexable enough to handle snowshoes. They are about 8" high and have a GoreTex liner.

Most importantly, the fit is great. (They are not like my old sloppy fitting Sorel Cariboo pac boots.) I checked out a nuber of different types of boots before deciding to buy. The lacing sytem and the tendon adjustment strap provide a number of options.

I am hopeful.

I used to have a pair of Sorel Quest, which I think are the same as the Conquest. I liked them; couldn't replace them when they wore out, but then they came back again!

So are the Cabella's Avalanche and similar boots able to take step-in crampons, with the bail at the toe and the clamp at the heel? Or can one only use strap-ons with them?

Jasper said:

For your consideration: I just bought a pair of Sorel Conquest so it is too early to tell how they will work-out. However:

They have 400 grams of Thinsulate insulation. They are fairly stiff so they should be ok for strap-on crampons. Yet, they are flexable enough to handle snowshoes. They are about 8" high and have a GoreTex liner.

Most importantly, the fit is great. (They are not like my old sloppy fitting Sorel Cariboo pac boots.) I checked out a nuber of different types of boots before deciding to buy. The lacing sytem and the tendon adjustment strap provide a number of options.

I am hopeful.

Click to expand...

I have these boots - they work well - I use them with snowshoes, stabilicers, full crampons, bare, etc...only complaint, and I think it is typical of this style - I cannot seem to lace them up as tightly as my regular boots - which may have led to my severe ankle sprain last winter - of course if they were real tight, it may have led to my severe ankle break...
They are warm and waterproof to the max.

Mad Townie said:

So are the Cabella's Avalanche and similar boots able to take step-in crampons, with the bail at the toe and the clamp at the heel? Or can one only use strap-ons with them?

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By the looks of it, it needs strap-ons... and so do the Salomons B52s and the Bugabootoos (which I used to have).

Carla,
I looked at a similar boot years ago, I consider these mountaineering boots, but not in the traditional NE sense - especially for overnight trips. These are boots for climbing rock and ice routes in areas that don't get continuous subzero temps like we do. I think of high mountain routes in the SW and NW, or perhaps Alaskan mountains routes in the summer with mixed climbing.
For step-ins, I would avoid any boot with a soft shell, even if it looks like it has a little lip. You really need strap-ons for the soft boots - Columbia, Sorrel, Cabela's and the like.
You can use step-ins with hard shell boots like your old ones.

I find boots for different winter sports to be a big pain. The 3 pin duck bill won't work with my Sherpas, though the NNN XC boots will, but they don't work with me.
If I were to try to find something to match my plastic climbing boots, I think I would have to go with something like a Randonee style lockdown binding (think $$$$$).
But I won't so I end up packing the truck with everything when I head to the mountains so I can have the flexibility to change plans depending on weather.
...But I wold be really interested in what others think.

Columbia Titanium Ice Crusher vs Asolo GTX520

For whatever it's worth I've been hiking NH 4Ks for 2 seasons now. I'd have to second Big Earl's comments going with the higher grade on the Columbia Titanium line of boots. My first year I started hiking using my Asolo GTX 520 leathers with goretex lining and unspecified insulation. Last winter I invested in Columbia Titanium Ice Crusher with 400g thinsulite supposedly good to -40F. I found my feet generally felt warmer in my Asolos than the Columbia -40F boots and I wore my Asolo's on one outing where temps were sub-zero. My Asolo GTX 520's are heavier than average leather boot than the Columbias so I don't neccessarily slam all "leather" boots vs other so-called insulated types. I'll continue to get along with what I've got this winter and bide my time simply trying to avoid extreme conditions until I can afford higher grade gear (all in good time). Meanwhile I'm investing in other good stuff like a bivy and a bomber down jacket.

Love my Columbia Ice Crushers. Plnety warm for cold days, but not oppressively hot on milder ones. Fit my Black Diamond Contact straps pefectly. Still waterproof too.

Brian

I'll second any recommendations for the Salomon B52's. Comfortable, lightweight (less than half the weight of Koflach Degre's), very warm, secure. Good with Stabilicers, snowshoes or strap on crampons.

JohnL

Merrell Thermal 8

Has anyone had any experiance with the Merrel Thermal 8 http://www.shoes.com/product.asp?p=5042430&variant_id=EC1046618. I Just purchased a pair this weekend and they seem very comfortable wearing them around the house. They have a stiff sole with a very aggressive tread that I think will work well. I was looking into plastic double boots but they seem overkill for most hikes. My only issue is that I will have to get a new pair of strap on crampons. My current G12 stepins won't work on the Merrels.

Leather Mounteering Boots

I use the same boots that CBCBD mentioned (LaSportiva Nepal Evo). They are vey sturdy for hiking and stiff for step-in crampons. They may be more technical than some people need. They're great for ice climbing. My feet stay nice and toasty.

I love my Columbia's Bugabootoo's - they keep me warm on all but the coldest climbs yet I can also wear them comfortably on fairly warm days (such as today!). They work well with my strap-on Grivel crampons and snowshoes. I think this winter will be my fourth or fifth winter with them and they look good as new. Good luck!

http://www.mountainmagic.com/equipment/footwear/mountaineering/scarpa-cumbre.htm

nuff said

The Sportiva Nepal Evos are a classic. I'm still using my old Scarpas Inverno but if I had the money I would try some of those lighter composite boots like the Vasque Ice 9000.

Kevin Rooney said:

look for a steel shank, 400 grams of Thinsulate insulation, and a semi-rigid box toe so that your snowshoes bindings will work well without pinching your toes.

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I went to EMS Concord during lunch today. They had very limited stock in my size 13. I tried on the Mad Rock mountaineering boot (very, very stiff, poor reviews, entry level) and two North Face boots - Chilkats and Baltoro. The latter was a maybe, but it hadn't a steel shank ("Too cold for steel" says the salesman) and the toe box was pretty squishy ("modern snowshoe bindings won't constrict your feet in those boots any").

The guy sounded like he knew what was what. I don't know. Care to further qualify this, Kevin?

These style boots seem pretty soft, yet they say no problem to strap-on crampons.

Tim