Confirmed Gray Wolf in Adirondacks

What would you like to know?

A point about veganism...

Amino Acids are a necessary part of the human diet. Vegans often have hollow sunken looks to them; it is because they don't eat meat. I think Veganism is more of an emotional problem than a valid ethical issue.

To be sure Shadowcat, there is something I like about you, and I dont't mean to flame anyone. I am just trying to raise what I believe are valid points.

Hunting has given me just one more way to love and appreciate the great outdoors.

One thing non-hunters cannot understand is how serious a discipline hunting is. Non-hunters, just think pointing and shooting at a helpless animalis the beginning and end to it. It really is not. Pick up a camera and try to get some wildlife shots to see how much work it takes. You will not really get a feel of how much work and skill it takes to go hunting, but it is a start.

I would only shoot animals that I want to eat, or have a nice pelt AND are otherwise a nuisancs. I would never shoot any kind of cat. Soemday I hope I am lucky enoug to see a cat in the wild.

Mike

Pleather pants portray real leather. So a person sees your nice pleather pants and says I should get a pair of leather pants b/c like you said no knows they are not real. So by wearing your pleather pants you aren't helping your cause, you are actually promoting leather. Hunters love the outdoors just as mush as any hiker.

Wrong

i don't think that's likely to happen. usually if i am wearing something somebody else likes they will tell me. in return i tell them, for instance in the case of "pleather" pants that they aren't real. i just wore them to work yesterday and got compliments on them. when i told my co-workers they were not real leather they thought it was great. there was no confusion. plus they are less expensive. i think you are wrong on that note and i think it's pretty obvious i don't try to mislead anyone.

Not saying you are misleading but how many people see you in the pants that you don't tell they are fake. Do you tell everybody that walks down the street "hey these pants are pleather"? I don't buy the pleather excuse, sorry but pleather promotes leather. I have seen people walking down the street and have thought "that is a nice jacket I should get one" You don't think people think that about your pleather pants.

question then

ok so tell me what i'm supposed to do then. i want a pr of say black boots. am i supposed to buy leather boots and be a hypocrit or buy pleather boots and worry everyone will think i'm wearing leather boots and think i'm a hypocrit - or am i supposed to go barefoot? do you drink or smoke? when people see you on the street how will they know? do you carry a sign? but how's this? the next time i think about wearing my "pleather" pants i'll remember what you said and go with out em. pantless.... heck i'll just go butt naked and won't confuse anyone.
like i said all i can do is make choices that support what i believe in, i don't expect to change the world - not today anyway.

Hey I don't want fight w/ you, but I feel if you wanted to help your cause, you wouldn't promote the killing of animals in anyway. Don't wear pleather, there are other options, wear jeans, nylon etc etc. If you are going to talk the talk then you should walk the walk. I could tell by your posts that you would look down at me b/c I enjoy the sport of hunting, I am true to it and make no excuses. I love being out there. If you want to continue this type of conversation we could go over to a PETA forum, b/c I know this doesn't belong here. I am done w/ this.

I will apologize for calling you a dufus

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accepted...
Please note that I am NOT a hunter, but realize every action has consequences, both intended and unintended.
I also welcome hunters on property I own...

let's call it a day

ripple's right this has gone on long enough and way off base for this site. i guess you never know where or how far a discussion is going to go - but now we are into animal rights issues so it no longer belongs here.
ripple tho before i leave please understand i don't look down on you or anyone - i wish you didn't hunt and i'll always argue my side. but look down on you - no that's not who i am.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they don't want to hear. (this applies to me also)
--George Orwell (author)

until we meet again......

sure thing MAV,

.... and I was totally serious.


Mike

Re: ouch!

shadowcat said:

You seem too nice a guy to hunt!

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What a slap in the face to hunters...I suppose that nice guys don't eat meat either, right??

Re: Re: ouch!

Ken999 said:

What a slap in the face to hunters...I suppose that nice guys don't eat meat either, right??

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I am a nice guy even with the blonde comment.
Just remember though, even Ted Bundy was VERY likeable.

This thread has been quite entertaining. Thank you all. I wanted to reply because I am now convinced (though I know it's very doubtful) that I saw a grey wolf two weeks ago near Keene. I remember coyotes as smaller, mangy looking savages , but this guy was big and had bushy fur on his neck and head.
Also, I must comment on the madness.
Ripple- Good point about the pleather. And, I was just waiting for the letters peta to show up. Let's not encourage anyone.
My father was a fur farmer. He received numerous threats (bomb) from these jokers.
Shadowcat-RE:now would you all like to tell me everything about yourselves?
I don't think anyone responded, so...
I eat what I think I could feasibly kill in the wild. This includes cats (just kidding) chicken, turkey, fish. I will also eat venison if someone I know gets a deer. I don't need testosterone in my diet! (I'll eat the no hormone stuff) I agree with ripple on the pleather, and I think that there are a lot of seemingly good ideas out there... like banning hunting and, my personal favorite, freeing animals which have been caged and fed for generations... that really don't jive with the reality of our society and what's best for the state of our natural world. I do understand your choices. And they should be respected, along with everyone else's.

Reading all these posts, with many claiming to having seen something, it occurs to me that we should all carry a camera with us, just an el-cheapo, but something to record some evidence of what we see. A camera and a dollar bill placed next to a track will go a long way in providing some proof of what is really out there. Just my 2½ cents.

BTW, check this link.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1080206005216910.xml

probably just a released caprtive, but you never know.....

Good advice, however, I wasn't prepared to cross the Ausable River to get a shot of it's tracks! (I did have my camera, but the animal ran before I could get a picture. It was probably a coyote. Also, it was more near your territory sixer... between Upper Jay and Jay on 9N.

Eagle,
There is a lot of land for something to disappear in that area, and a lot of deer to feed on. I'll check around, perhaps someone else has seen something.

Shadowcat
Im really curious about how a person raised in a hunting family,
can turn against all that they were taught, as far as resourse use.
What was it that made you not want to be involved with hunting, and natural resourse use, inspite of your upbringing???
Steveo

I received and email message from someone regarding the grey wolf issue, but accidentally marked it as spam and deleted it. Please resend it. Thanks

Shadowcat has held her own very well but I'd just like to add a word of support to the points she and mommabear have raised.

Personally I have no issue with hunting as long as the species isn't endangered and the kill is made use of for food or leather. As Shadowcat pointed out about the commercial beef/poultry industries, if you're not a vegetarian you are probably much better off eating venison anyway. My concern about hunting is with the large numbers of sport hunters and weekend warriors who enjoy the kill much more than they do the carcass. How long did it take those kinds of hunters to wipe out the massive bison herds? 5 years?

I am realistic though. When we upset the natural balance unfortunately we sometimes have to intervene to try to maintain the new balance. You would think that the Adirondacks are large enough and wild enough to survive without our intervention. But I'm afraid that may not be so.

One question about the value of coyote pelts. Is the $20 the market price or is it a bounty? If the coyote has no natural predetors now, who were they in the past? It's seems peculiar that we love dogs so much but hate wolves and coyotes with such a passion.
Billy

14000feet said:

My concern about hunting is with the large numbers of sport hunters and weekend warriors who enjoy the kill much more than they do the carcass. How long did it take those kinds of hunters to wipe out the massive bison herds? 5 years?
Where do you get your documentation regarding Large numbers of weekend warriors? After taking the time that is needed in most states these days to be able to own and use hunting gear, you usually don't go firing off just to hear the noise. Most hunters are not what you describe.

One question about the value of coyote pelts. Is the $20 the market price or is it a bounty? If the coyote has no natural predetors now, who were they in the past? It's seems peculiar that we love dogs so much but hate wolves and coyotes with such a passion.
Billy

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Pelts go for $100.00-500.00 on the web depending on the condition.
I agree, coyotes are beautiful and I do not hunt them. But... in MA coyotes are on endangered list and have been for years. However, they have come back so strong plus urban sprawl has caused the two to butt heads and the coyote is winning right now because of the protective law. Right now it's a few dogs and cats that are missing but the first lil' tike eaten and they will be hunted again.

Barry Sr wrote: 'Where do you get your documentation regarding Large numbers of weekend warriors? After taking the time that is needed in most states these days to be able to own and use hunting gear, you usually don't go firing off just to hear the noise. Most hunters are not what you describe.'


Unfortunately, fools aren't always deterred by regulation. Look how many of them have drivers licenses But your point is well taken. I have no documentation, only personal experience. As with many things though, you don't notice the ones doing it right, only the ones doing it wrong. So my comment could be exaggerating the numbers but not their fool hardyness. For one example, I'll never again poo in an outhouse with antlers on the door.