Lightning ascents versus Denali Ascents

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Neil

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I am retiring a worn-out pair of Denali Ascents and would be interested in hearing people's experiences and comparisons with the Lightning Ascents.

I still have a second pair of Denalis so the Lightnings would offer another choice. I will be doing a lot of bushwhacking also be going on steep icy trails.
 
Neil said:
I am retiring a worn-out pair of Denali Ascents and would be interested in hearing people's experiences and comparisons with the Lightning Ascents.

I still have a second pair of Denalis so the Lightnings would offer another choice. I will be doing a lot of bushwhacking also be going on steep icy trails.

Will you be hiking in the rain?
 
That's a good question. I'm shy of the Lightenings after seeing a pair at the Bean outlet that were squished in laterally. (Meaning one shoe was almost 2 inches less wide than the other) I pulled it back into shape by hand just to see if I could. I could move it into any shape I wanted. That worried me. Take it for what you want since I don't own either kind but had gotten pretty excited when I saw the lightenings at such a good price.
 
I was wondering myself. Seems like not a lot of people have used them. Never hear much talk about them. I am always a little worried with gear that is real light. Cant be strong unless it is tatanium or carbon
 
We both have the Lightning Ascents - the 25 inch version and love them. They do great on ice and going up steep stuff. We also have a set up Tubbs that we will use if we are fairly sure we will need them all day, but the MSR's are the ones we take with us if we start out carrying them on our packs. The binding system takes a little getting used to but once you do they are on and off in a flash. We have used them on all of the above treeline peaks without issue.
 
Lightning Ascents 30"

Pros. I like the traction system.

Cons. Relatively narrow which causes lateral instability. The binding caused friction and a blister to form on my small toes.

I don't expect to use them again. I'll stick with the Atlas.
 
I've been using these for a couple of seasons now and like them very much. I would agree with the above comments on traction and bindings. The heel lifter is a real plus also. Because of the teeth in the frame they side slab real nice. When I want to go real light I use my Northtern Lites but this is usually when I have SnowShoes just in case or if I am skiing and want a back up mode of travel. The Nothern Lites don't offer IMO as good of traction as the Lightenings. I used Sherpas for years and really like them...the Lightenings have been a great replacement and improvement.
 
I have a lot of experience with MSR Lightning Ascents over the past two years climbing ADK High Peaks and elsewhere. There is a serious design problem with the crampon, not only in my experiences but with other's (ask Highonlife or Kerry).

The problem is the design, material and construction of the crampon and plate which is the support of the binding assembly. The binding is attached to the crampon by two rivets near the points of the crampons. I have had breakage occur three times with the rivet pulling out and the plate breaking across the rivet holes. In one case the crampon points were completely gone. MSR replaced my Lightnings twice already and this time they are saying they will replace only the binding. The latest rivet pull-out occurred on descending Nippletop-Dial ridge in deep snow on Dec. 11. I think this occurred because I was lifting my feet up while descending (admittedly fast) to avoid submarining. I also broke the binding on my wife's Lightnings (women's model) on the Santanonis in November (MSR replaced the binding). This break occurred where the plate rests on the front cross bar (this same break happened last spring to Kerry). Lastly, I consider my weight (160 lb w/o pack) and type of snowshoe use well within the "normal" limits. I'm just an old guy trying to have a little fun :D . If I am breaking them, it will happen to anyone (ask Highonlife or Kerry, who are even smaller).

Well, my wife's generosity ended and I was ordered to stop using her snowshoes (which had been my backup when mine were repeatedly broken and being repaired/replaced). So after the Dec. 11 break, I bought a pair of MSR Denali evo Ascents which I have been using for the last three weeks.

Comparison of Denalis and Lightnings:

Ascending--about the same, both very sure grip. Denalis with the steel side strips might be a little better on icy/hard surfaces. The Denali 3-point crampons are more aggressive than the 2-points on the Lightnings. The plastic on Denalis takes a hit on rock but so does the aluminum frame on the Lightnings. Overall I think the Denalis hold up a little better with the metal side bars. The frame forms a snow cavity on the Lightnings and the whole perimeter of the frame adds to grip.

Descending--Denalis do not slide as well downhill; when I would like to glide, they still grip and don't go as fast as the Lightnings. Lightnings have excellent control on descent (but don't lift your feet or you'll pull out the rivets). But they are grippier than my old Tubbs Sierras which slide uncontrollably downhill. I remember several situations where I calmly walked downhill on crusty snow when companions were afraid for their lives on other snowshoes.

Flotation--Lightnings are much better in deeper snow with the flexible decking and cavity around the metal perimeter. I wonder if the optional tails on the Denali will help much, especially when climbing, since when climbing steeply uphill in deep snow the tails are out in the air and all the action is in the front and under foot.

Overall, I prefer the Lightnings but MSR needs to redesign and strengthen the crampon to make it durable enough for "normal use". Surely, they know this by now and it wouldn't be difficult to do. My guess is that the marketing people don't want this because it would probably make the Lightning heavier and/or more expensive. As long as they continue to replace mine (and now that I have a good backup with the Denalis), I guess I can wait.
 
I had the same problem with my Lightning Ascents as Joe Cedar. The clevis pin that holds the crampon to the 'shoe popped out on a descent the second time I used them. I've made a successful replacement ( so far) with a machine screw the same diameter as the clevis pin, and a lock washer sandwiched between two nuts installed with some blue threadlock. I plan on seeing how this works for a while, and switching them all over if it seems to hold up better than the three remaining clevis pins..... other than that, I really like them. The traction is good, and the narrower width of the 'shoes makes for a more natural gait. I've been pleasantly surprised at the level of flotation they provide as well.
 
Only once (the most recent failure) has the rivet simply pulled out. The other times the plate was also broken across the rivet hole. If the rivet pull occurs first, replacing it with a bolt/nut will work. If the breakage of the metal across the hole is the first event, then it won't.

Your fix may work but will invalidate the warranty, so you won't be covered for any other failure. I guess they would sell you a new binding assembly if needed. As long as they keep replacing/repairing it, I'm OK, now that I have a good backup pair.
 
Neil - what is worn out that you are retiring your Denali Ascents? I've walked on bare rock, mud, and basically beat the crap out of mine and although they are beat they are far from worn out. I've had them rebuilt and also have had the company send me pieces/ parts many times to fix them.

Apart from a catastrophic failure of the plastic shoe frame itself I am curious what wears to the point of considering them spent - so I can watch for signs of getting there (instead of barebooting back from a catastrophe :eek: ).

Damon
 
dRitter said:
Neil - what is worn out that you are retiring your Denali Ascents? I've walked on bare rock, mud, and basically beat the crap out of mine and although they are beat they are far from worn out. I've had them rebuilt and also have had the company send me pieces/ parts many times to fix them.

Apart from a catastrophic failure of the plastic shoe frame itself I am curious what wears to the point of considering them spent - so I can watch for signs of getting there (instead of barebooting back from a catastrophe :eek: ).

Damon
A front rivet popped and before I noticed it the decking had become badly creased. I took them back and got a full refund for the (higher) 2004 price.

Then my second 2004 pair did the exact same thing and I got another refund.

I had beaten the crap out of mine but the Co-op where I bought them cheerfully refunded my money. I bought a pair of Lightnings and next season will buy Evo Ascents.
 
Neil said:
A front rivet popped and before I noticed it the decking had become badly creased. I took them back and got a full refund for the (higher) 2004 price.

Then my second 2004 pair did the exact same thing and I got another refund.

I had beaten the crap out of mine but the Co-op where I bought them cheerfully refunded my money. I bought a pair of Lightnings and next season will buy Evo Ascents.


This thread and the other one don't exactly offer glowing reviews on MSR snow shoes, but many people seem loyal to that brand and I'm curious why ? Are the problems limited to the LA model or are the other major brands...Tubbs and Atlas even worse ?
 
Sugarloafer said:
This thread and the other one don't exactly offer glowing reviews on MSR snow shoes, but many people seem loyal to that brand and I'm curious why ? Are the problems limited to the LA model or are the other major brands...Tubbs and Atlas even worse ?

Well, I've used Atlas for years. They take a beating but I have felt that my friends in their MSR's got better grip on steep uphills. Is that other people's experience?
 
I would add that people who tend to snowshoe with a narrow stride will have a greater tendency to trip with the Lightenings because the teeth on the metal perimeter can catch on the the top of the other shoe. I have had it happen and seen it happen to others. Not an issue with the plastic shoes.
I think Lightenings have much better traction overall due to that same metal perimeter. Mine have held up well over heavy use.
 
Sugarloafer said:
This thread and the other one don't exactly offer glowing reviews on MSR snow shoes, but many people seem loyal to that brand and I'm curious why ? Are the problems limited to the LA model or are the other major brands...Tubbs and Atlas even worse ?
As I commented on the "other" thread on the topic, MSR snowshoes are very popular. Thus there will be reports of problems even if only a very small percentage of them fail.

I have a pair of Evo Ascents--they are relatively light, grip well, are well supported by the manufacturer, and have been reliable for me. They are a bit small for deep powder, but are big enough for most snow conditions found in the NE.

Doug
 
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