Big changes coming on Loj Road

The new issue of the Adirondack Mountain Club's periodical "Adirondac" has a very informative article regarding some major changes on the horizon at the end of the Loj Road. If you don't receive that magazine, you might want to read this thread http://tinyurl.com/2pkylu on ADKHighPeaks.com to glean some info about the "heart" of that issue.

Basically, the Unit Management Plan (UMP) for the area calls for several changes in the near future, or at least in the next few years. ADK and the NYS DEC are in discussions about the building of a new visitor service facility on the Loj Road, approx. a half-mile (or 1/4 mile?) before the end of the road. This new large facility would be on ADK property, and be leased by the DEC. The new building would have parking for 200-300 cars. The current parking lots by the High Peaks Information Center (HPIC) would be closed and allowed to "return to nature". This new center may also house the rangers that currently are based at Marcy Dam, so the interior outpost there would be closed. South Meadow Road (aka Meadows Lane) may also be closed to vehicular traffic, becoming a foot trail to the campsites along the road. Meadows Lane is owned by the Town of Elba, so that's being negotiated separately, as far as I know.

In addition, ADK would reduce the number of beds in the Loj (bunk rooms aren't too popular anymore), expand the campground, and build 2 new lodges to house perhaps 17 people each. These new camping and lodging facilities would be serviced by a remodeled and possibly expanded building in what is now the HPIC.

It's possible that there will be fewer camp sites at Marcy Dam, with the expectation that hikers will take advantage of the new ADK sites, thus lessening the impact in the heavily used Marcy Dam area.

Although there's lots more in that article, and I'll let others bring up those topics. There is much to celebrate here, so I hope that we can take a positive approach to these changes.

Hey Bob, thanks for the info. First thought is that this really is positive (and I didn't think that was what was coming from your "regarding some major changes on the horizon " initial comment).

I've got some reading to do.

What's broke that needs fixing at great expense? Just asking.

Pig Pen said:

What's broke that needs fixing at great expense? Just asking.

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There are some pressing structural and infrastructure issues at the Loj and campground that need attention. I think that is one of ADK's primary motiviations.

Overuse of the Marcy Dam area may be prompting some changes in offering better and additional camping and lodging near the trailhead. Too many uninformed people hiking for the first time and overestimating their abilities or underestimating the degree of difficulty of the trail may be inspiring the DEC to become more involved at the access point that about 40% of all High Peaks users access them by.

I definitely will be following this thread. What exactly is the interaction between the DEC and the ADK Club on this situation? Is this a definite change and does the ADK need any kind of an approval process? Also any room for public and/or ADK membership comment. This is the fiirst I've heard of this situation and will admit I am not up on all the issues but my initial feeling here is that they are using a chain saw when a scapel might only be needed. I've got some studying up to do on this.

I haven't seen the magazine issue yet, but it sounds interesting. Always most interesting to me are the motivations.

A potential positive outcome would be more Ranger presence providing education at campsites near the trailhead.

Anyone know how many cars the current HPIC parking lots accommodate?

I think the current capacity at the HPIC is over 200 cars, so the total parking capacity will be similar. The article describes the content of the High Peaks UMP, which is available through the DEC website. The Heart Lake Master Plan was developed over 10 years ago, but because these more high profile changes are closer to happening, we may begin to hear a lot more about it.

And by they way Bob thankyou for all the great info not to mention the head's up. After reading the ADK forum thread on this topic but not yet diving into the 365 page Master Plan I would have to say that IMO some of this is good and bad. Personally having been Daking for almost thirty years it is tough to see change although it is enevitable. Some of this change I would agree is necessary and some not. From what I can estrapulate so far it seems as though the ADK club is in need of some capital improvements at it's High Peaks facility but they don't have the money to do it. By coordinating with the DEC they seem as though they might be able to meet their Capital Goals. IMO it is unfortunate that the club cannot improve upon what they already have rather than gouge out another part of the woods to meet those goals. By decreasing parking at the same time this seems at bit of a farce as people are just going to park and hike elsewhere on those days when the parking is full and therefore disperse the impact to an even greater area on parking that is already at a premium. Their also decreasing camping at Marcy Dam and moving it to South Meadows is yet another farce. People camp at South Meadows already anyhow and at Marcy Dam. So now we move them down the Trail from Marcy Dam and increase the impact at South Meadows;although it could be argued that Peter is being robbed to pay Paul as they might be able to revegitate some of the Marcy Dam area in doing so. Some of this does just not add up for me although I do agree with some of the motivation for the issues that they seem to have. In a nutshell it seems as though the ADK Club just does not have the Dollars to accomplish what might need to happen; therfore they need to move down the Road and move in with the DEC. Again it would be nice if a scapel could be used here instead of the chain saw they intend to use. A more phasic approach makes more sense. It amazes me with the obvious lack of funds that the ADK has to accomplish it's goals that they have been so poor at communicating their goals and needs to the public and ADK Club members alike therefore letting things to deteriorate to the point that they have to take this drastic of a measure. I will be the first again to admit I donot understand all the issues at hand or know how to solve them. I guess it's time to go read the Master Plan.

skiguy said:

Again it would be nice if a scapel could be used here instead of the chain saw they intend to use.

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I may change my mind later as I don't understand the issue(s) fully but my preliminary inclination is to agree with this. For anyone in the know--is this likely to add 0.25 or 0.5 miles (one way) to many of the most popular hikes in the area (particularly the McIntyres, Mt. Jo, and others which do not lead to Marcy Dam)?

skiguy said:

I will be the first again to admit I do not understand all the issues at hand or know how to solve them.

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I'll be the second...

BlackSpruce said:

The ADK master plan is a must read for all members. I personally was taken aback by much of its content. If anyone else was proposing the same kind of “real estate” plan at the foot of the MacIntyres, “Our Club” would relentlessly fight it. Even though it’s convenient for a few members to enjoy accommodation by Johns Brook or on the shore of Heart Lake, members could question the wisdom of spending big money to add and improve indoors hospitality. What was an indispensable service to the members in the 1920s is today an extravagant luxury the Adirondack Mountain Club, already struggling to finance most of its programs, can ill afford.

The proposed plan will greatly increased traffic at the Heart Lake property trailhead as it will become more of a tourist attraction for the Lake Placid area visitors. Could it be the ADK is envisioning more profit potential that could finance its Albany’ advocacy activities? Adding many more beds and campsites (“Provide for a total of 96 guest beds on the property”), turning by 2012 the actual Loj building into a dining facility, enhancing campers services (campground support facility with expanded washhouse capabilities, recycling, and food clean up and storage areas), constructions of several new buildings (a new dedicated Education building that will meet the needs of the future programming of ADK), etc. raises countless questions even if the club pledge to “Continue to use the property as a role model for appropriate low-impact use of private backcountry lands”.

The icing on the cake in more ways than one is the construction of the new visitor centre (HPIC) on ADK land. This will provide forever leasing revenues to the ADK and facilitates building permits since the surrounding state land being classified as Forest Preserve doesn’t allowed a project of that size!

I am not discussing the merit of a new HPIC centre, only stating the ever increasing contradictions of the Adirondack Mountain Club management. Could it be as well that confronted the last few years with a slightly dwindling membership base the ADK is looking to add another “clientele” to its membership, the following paragraph of the plan could be an indication of a new long term aim: “In the past, the majority of visitors to the HLP were either passing through on their way to the HPWA, or were staying at ADK property as a means of gaining access to the backcountry. In the last decade, more and more people who come to ADK North Country facilities are coming to enjoy the beauty of the Heart Lake and Mt. Jo and immerse themselves in the wilderness experience that can be attained without ever leaving the property’s bounds.”


In conclusion I personnally will next spring (renewal time) become a member of the Nature Conservancy and let go of my ADK membership.

Christine Bourjade, member 994409 till March 31, 2008.

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I'm slightly confused by your stance regarding this ... especially since the Nature Conservancy has these accomodations listed on their web page : http://www.nature.org/aboutus/travel/lodging/

As they write on this webpage, "It's our best way to educate members about our work and ensure their ongoing support". Seems like this is what the ADK is trying to do.

just my half-cent.

By the time anything actually gets done I wouldn't be surprised if we're into a new ice age. (Still waiting for the new trail on Cliff) If the new facility does get built I would imagine there will be an increase in the number of people who wander up to Marcy Dam. Some of those might get the hiking bug.

But the majority who drive in off the 86 will just stand around and look at all the cool posters and buy some iced tea or DEET.

Just read the article in Adirondac Mag, and maybe I haven't fully digested the content, but I see mostly positives in this:

1) Pushing access further from the High Peaks -- good thing

2) Creating a better mechanism to educate those heading into the HP -- good thing

3) Further reducing impact at Marcy Dam -- good thing

4) Improving the facilities at the Heart Lake property -- good thing and long overdue

The proposed plan will greatly increased traffic at the Heart Lake property trailhead as it will become more of a tourist attraction for the Lake Placid area visitors

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If tourists do decide to take a drive down the Loj road, they'll stop at the new info center, maybe walk a hundred yards then turn around and get back in their cars. The Heart Lake property trailhead(if there is such a thing) will be 1/4 - 1/2 mile past the parking area.

The ADK North Country Director / Ass't Exec Director will reply as soon as he is able. I'll post his reply. He's been involved with the Master Plan from its inception, and might be able to offer a little more balance to this thread. I've never know him to say anything but the truth, regardless.

Protectionism vs. Revenues

Most of the problem for me with this is that it seems too late for most of us outdoor enthuisist's to comment. Please correct me if I am wrong but this seems like the guy or gal in the Belltower looking to take out the bad guy. Again I am not totally imformed on this issue as of yet...but I really think the system in NY has failed by keeping the past, present and future users abrest of the ADK/DEC plans on this development. I would hope that there is room for comment on a higher level than this board on this issue. My first impressions are not good considring this issue. What's disappointing for me is that this issue to begin with has not raised itself sooner. Once again I really hoped that this situation is looked at with the scapel and not the chainsaw. If the ADK club is suddenly having a knee jerk reaction to their agenda going forward that is just poor mangement. Some of the comments being made on this board and others alludes to the event that the ADK club has been loosing membership and revenue. To try to spend at this point wether it be through the club or through other agencies at this point to increase futher revenues makes absolutely no sense...not to mention an experience that now exists that is relatively intact.

a hiking club keeping his membership away from the mountains that binds them together?

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I don't think I read anything about ADK keeping their membership away from the High Peaks. Access would potentially be moved 1/4-1/2 mile down the Loj road. That would add .5 - 1 mile to anyone accessing the High Peaks from that point. I know my opinion is one of many, but that extra distance will have absolutely no impact on my High Peak hiking plans.

And I think that ADK ceased being a hiking club many years ago. When ADK decided it wanted it's voice heard in Albany, that signaled a strategic change in direction for ADK. I don't want to argue the relative merits of ADK -- it is what it is.

Could someone who's been to both Loj and PNVC answer this ... it sounds like the proposal turns the facility into something just like Pinkham Notch, with lodging, classrooms, dining, visitor center, etc. Is that correct?

MichaelJ said:

Could someone who's been to both Loj and PNVC answer this ... it sounds like the proposal turns the facility into something just like Pinkham Notch, with lodging, classrooms, dining, visitor center, etc. Is that correct?

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The Loj pretty much has all that stuff right now. The only thing they may not have is 'class rooms', and a large meeting room, but they already have small scale meetings and trainings there. Many of the buildings are old, but so what!? There are a lot of old buildings in the world! Like someone said above, why spend so much $$$ for something like this?

General philosophy (not specific to this situation):

Look for motivations. Often, when a change is made, the "official" reason is completely true, and makes sense. But if the official reason makes no sense, something else is going on. These people aren't stupid. When smart people do something that appears to make no sense, look for the hidden agenda.

BlackSpruce said:

Here are more details of the construction plan:
2008:
· VSF completed, begin transfer of functions from HPIC.
· Begin conversion of HPIC to camping support building.
· Begin expansion of campground.
· Design and planning for pavilion for campground and education use.

2009:
· HPIC conversion completed.
· Campground expansion completed.
(change total from 37 to 50 campsites)
· Pavilion started and completed.
· Design and planning for new maintenance facility.
· Design and planning for conversion of maintenance to offices.
· Design for expansion of Trails Cabin.
· Design for Tyler renovation.

2010:
· Maintenance facility erected.
· Former maintenance building converted to offices.
· Trails Cabin expanded.
· Tyler Cabin converted for rentals.
· Begin infrastructure planning and design for dedicated Education building.
· Design and infrastructure planning for two lodging cabins.
· Design for additional staff housing.

2011:
· Build and complete one lodging cabin.
· Build additional staff housing facility.
(Build seven-person seasonal staff cabin)
· Complete infrastructure planning and design for dedicated Education building.
· Design for renovation of Manager’s Cabin to volunteer facility.

2012:
· Build and complete second lodging cabin.
· (Guest Cabin #1 (15 beds) /Guest Cabin #2 (15 beds)

· Complete conversion of Manager’s Cabin to volunteer facility.
· Begin construction of Education facility.
· Design and infrastructure for ADK Inn lodging facility.

2013:
· Education facility completed.
· Begin construction of ADK Inn lodging facility.
· Design of Adirondak Loj conversion to ADK Loj dining facility,

2014:
· ADK Inn lodging facility completed.
· Adirondak Loj conversion started.

2015:
· ADK Loj dining facility completed.

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It's starting to sound like a resort and tourist destination.