What would you do???

After reading and reflecting on all the posts regarding the tragedies on the ROCKPILE this winter I would like to know what you would do if you were caught in a major storm hiking in the Whites.
Let's assume that you have decent survival gear in your pack.
Very warm puffy jacket, expedion weight thermals and fleece, stove, warm sleeping bag and something like the ultra-light Bivy bag, high energy food, hand warmers, etc.
Would it be better to dig a snow cave, and use all your gear, jump up and down to stay warm, and then hunker down to wait it out, or should you press on and hope to get below tree line or to a safer place?
What would you do if you were solo?
What would you do if you were with 2-4 people with decent survival gear?
My gut tells me that if things were really bad it might be better to dig in and stay put rather than risk getting hopelessly lost or falling off the edge.
I have been following Will Steger's polar expedition and when they have bad storms they stay put.
If the decision is too stay put, would it be better to do it early in the game rather than later? IT seems that the longer you press on hoping to get out, the colder you get, and then you might not have the wherewithall to dig your cave and set up. I would love some input on this. Thanks.
Maddy

In my mind, and what most survival writings seem to advise, the best thing to do is to stay put and prepare a shelter. Energy lost in a frantic effort to get out is valuable energy that can be used to keep warm. In addition, you will be a whole lot easier to find by possible rescuers if you remain close to the itinerary that you (hopefully) left with someone.

Of course, ultimately it depends on a number of variables, including terrain, severity of the weather, one's current position (windward side or lee side for example), etc.

I just hope to avoid getting caught in such a situation, but sometimes the situation catches us, I guess.

I have never been in this life and death type of situation.

However, assuming that I had what I needed to survive, I think I would hunker down, and wait for the storm to break. It just seems like the safest way to deal with the situation. I do think that the decision to hunker down or make a run for it, has a lot to do with personality. I guess I'm just a hunker down kinda person.

I don't think you should generalize what to do because each situation poses different variables which need to be dealt with individually - time of day, condition of hikers, knowledge of area and terrain, etc. However, always being prepared to bivy, having the proper supplies - food, water and navigation tools - and knowing the weather forecast are basic and essential requirements for us all. It seems that it always takes a tragedy to drive home the point to some folks.

Despite the fact that it may be safer to hunker down and wait out the worst of the storm, I think it is only human nature to try to get out. And I believe my first instinct would be to make an effort to get off the mountain, or at least below treeline. Although I've never been in a true life-threatening situation like you describe, I cannot honestly say without a doubt that I would do the "best" thing. In other words, in the safety of my warm house, it's easy to say that I would do the right thing. But being in the actual situation, .......... who knows? I might make all the wrong mistakes. I always try to be prepared for the conditions at the time, assess the weather, and tell loved ones of my plans. Hiking/backpacking can be inherently dangerous, and I know the risks. I've turned back more than once due to either wind or poor visibility, and I'm sure I'll be turned back again. To me, that's part of the fun and challenge in knowing that I will not always be successful in trying to summit. So, while I hope to never be in a life-threatening situation, if I am, I hope that the knowledge I've learned from so many folks here at VFTT combined with my own skills and instincts will help me to make the best decision at the time.

Of course any person's mileage may vary tremendously from one situation to the next. As a general approach, I think about whether getting below treeline is doable. In other words, it's a balancing of the perceived risks. If the risk is going off a cliff, one is faced with a different situation than if the risk is simply getting into the trees off the trail.

Bottom line: what is the likelihood of death with each choice? The next questions is likelihood of serious injury, and the analysis proceeds from there, with the last step probably being the likelihood of really irritating someone who is expecting me to be somewhere.

All of this avoids the first question, which relates to getting into the situation in the first place.

In the winter, and, if I had the gear (tent, winter bag, enough food), I'd play it safe and make camp before hypothermia clouded my thinking and the severe cold rendered my hands useless. But of course, that's what I say now on a beautiful spring day in the comfort of my own home.
Billy

Billy makes a good point. A person that becomes hypothermic may exhibit irritable, irrational, and/or confused behavior. So, if things start going badly in the field and you become hypothermic, who knows what you may "decide" to do.

I would MOVE, MOVE, MOVE !!!!!!!!!

First of all, it would extremely unlikely that I would get caught out in a major snowstorm. I don't plan big hikes with that kind of weather predicted. If I were caught in a freak whiteout squall, I believe my instinct would be to hunker down, going on the assumption that conditions would improve shortly.

If caught above treeline in that hypothetical situation, I would probably hike down to below treeline as quickly as possible and try to hike out. If unable to get out by mid-afternoon, I'd set up some type of camp before dark and wait out the night.

Last winter, on my birthday, I decided to cancel the planned difficult hike because of an impending strom. Instead, we decided to do Algonquin. Climbing up there was lots of big flakes and limited visability. Above tree line we were going cairn to cairn. It was facemask and goggles conditions with horizonally driven snow. At the summit, we sat a few feet apart and the summit photo was a blur of white. On the summit, it was a sea of white. Finding the actual summit was surprisingly difficult.The wind was pushing us around and we were very shortly left with no natural sense of direction.

We left the summit compass in hand and religously following the bearing. The cairns could not be detected until they were just a few feet in front of us. I was grateful that there was a sense of horizon in the distance.

It is difficult to say what I would have done because I do not know how bad the conditions were. If it was possible to safely walk (wind less than 60mph), then I would probably continue to navigate my way downhill. Of course, there is an enormous amount of work required to do this. Then map need to be prefolded to 4" by 4 in or smaller so it doesn'y blow away. Compass and altimeter need to used well.

Of course, I do not count on being able to get down and carry the necessary emergency gear. I think I only use about 20% of my 32lb daypack.

John H Swanson said:

.... we were very shortly left with no natural sense of direction.

We left the summit compass in hand and religously following the bearing. ....

Then map need to be prefolded to 4" by 4 in or smaller so it doesn'y blow away.

Click to expand...

While many probably do this, some may not.

BEFORE (IE while at home) write down critical bearings to key locations. EG summit to col,
col to bump, bump into woods.... It is MUCH easier to simply read the bearings from a card (or even better, a 'label' stuck to the back of the compass) than it is to try futzing with a map.

Relevant Book

"Don't Die on the Mountain," Dan H. Allen, Diapensia Press

answers may vary depending on conditions/injuries-

1- get below treeline
2- get below treeline
3- get below treeline

anybody that would try to 'hunker down' and wait out a storm above treeline in the Whites is dreaming. If it's too windy to walk then crawl. You may get lucky, and obviously there are exceptions, such as if there is any type of shelter already there that could be used (huts/water towers/rocks/snow drifts), but most of the terrain above treeline in the Whites is rock hard and impossible to dig a snow cave. Most tents would be shredded by the winds on 90% of the nights there.
Plus who can tell how long a storm will last?

I agree with Bob, get below treeline. You are more likely to make a suitable shelter there, driving snow or sleet would be somewhat broken up by the trees, and you're more likely to find fuel for a fire, which would be one of my priorities.

The on-site decision to be made is which direction to descend. The leeward side would take you out of the wind but that side would most likely have deeper snow near the summit or ridge and, in certain vulnerable locations, higher avalanche risk. The windward route might be preferable, depending upon conditions, if it got you to shelter or a road.

These are things to occupy your mind plan your route and escape plans and as you tread towards your goal. If conditions begin to make escape a reality, I'd suggest turning around sooner than later.

I like Bob's 3 rules. Above all else, you have to get below tree line. From there, I would decide if it was safer to continue travel or safer to hole up. I think if I can safely navigate, I would try to keep moving. While I am always prepared to do it, having to spend an unplanned night out in the winter is not at the top of my list. I think conditions would have to be really bad for me to abandon trying to hike out. Even if I decide to stay put, I would be second guessing myself wondering if I am better off in my sleeping bag and bivy but not moving. I guess you can do sit ups or something to try to keep warm.

Something else that I would consider is what my family and friends would be going through during the night. Even if I was able to get a cell call through to them to let them know I was hunkering down, I know it would be a long night of worry for them.

However, let's say that I do try to find shelter. I've never had to do it, so let me throw out a question for those that have. Is it even possible to start a fire to stay warm? I'm assuming the weather has caused you to seek shelter. Can you get a fire going in strong winds and/or heavy snow? Is there enough dead wood available near tree line or in a deep snow pack to start and maintain a fire? How do you keep it from doing the "China Syndrome" thing and melting into the snow pack?

For that matter, how easy is it to get a stove going in severe winter conditions? Unless you have extra water, you’ll need to melt snow. Dehydration is a contributing cause of hypothermia.

With all of the above concerns and the lessons learned from this winter's fatalities, I am trying really to avoid getting stuck in a situation where I have to decide what I would do. But I still want to know what I would need to bring and do to survive the night.

Depends on many variables

I have been twice caught in severe weather, neither time above tree line.
Once, I hunkered down. It was the second day of a multi day hike, so I had adequate food and gear. The first night I was in a shelter with 2 other hikers. It had started to snow on the first night, there were several inches by morning. I ate breakfast while I decided whether to go or stay. The 2 others went, I decided to wait it out. I didn't want to chance the conditions because I wear glasses. These can sometimes make it difficult to see in thick, driven snow because it can stick to the lenses. By the next morning, there was about 3 feet of snow with drifts over 5 feet. I began breaking trail back to the trailhead. I got about half a mile before returning to the shelter. I made it to the trailhead the next day, took about 12 hours to make 4-5 miles. This was a freak spring snowstorm, so although I had some cold weather gear I didn't have snowshoes. I later heard that the other two hikers were able to another shelter halfway to their destination, then they waited it out too.
The second time was a week long winter hike in southern Vermont. Temps had been predicted -10 to 20, but had been running -20 to 5. I ditched back out to the trailhead on the fourth day, but that was more of a comfort decision than a crisis.

No matter the season, I make sure to bring enough gear that I can bivy if I have to. I might not have enough to be comfortable, but enough that I'll hopefully live.

But you never know what you'll run into out there.

Maddy said:

After reading and reflecting on all the posts regarding the tragedies on the ROCKPILE this winter I would like to know what you would do if you were caught in a major storm hiking in the Whites.

Click to expand...

I think it really depends on where you are hiking and what the season is. What I would do on a winter day hike above treeline would be very different than what I might do during a torrential rain on a multiday mountain backpack. Both of these would be different from what I would do if xc skiing in the Pemi.

In terms of being above treeline, my general thought would be to get out of Dodge. I think Marc Chauvin has great advice on this implied by his use of "Escape Routes". See: http://www.chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presiemergguide.htm
and click on the link for "Escape Routes".

I don't know what the survival experts would say, but I know myself well enough to say that if I were on a winter dayhike, I would not hunker down above treeline. I would try to get back to the car first. If getting out were impossible, I would at least try to get as far below treeline as possible.

If I had a full pack with a sleeping bag and mountaineering tent, I might try to stick it out up high, but I would probably still try to drop some elevation.