Decline in AMC/ADK Memberships&Visitors

Hello all,
I haven't posted in some time, but the discussion over the ADK Lodge proposal has led me to thinking

I see more people on the trails these days than ever, especially in winter.

If indeed it is true, why? What has led to the decline in memberships and visitors to the centers?

Is it the economy? It seems that every Tom Dick and Harry have a $300.00 pair of snowshoes, $400.00 tent and a Goretex jacket that costs as much as a new pair of skis these days.

Has rock&ice climbing, backcounty skiing, and other outdoor sports "claimed" would be hikers and canadates for memberships.

Is it that the centers are old and not as inviting anymore?

Is gear better now, do people want to camp outside and have more of a wilderness experience?

Do we have different views on how the wilderness should be used or developed that are different from the ones the Clubs have had in the past.

Do we see the Clubs changing their standards to meet their goals and agendas?

Any thoughts on why such a decline in membership growth?

I'll hang up and listen..................

There is a decline in membership in all outdoors organizations. People are using the internet, smaller groups, and going on their own much more. This trend has been all over the US, and in many outdoors sports.

Cost of being a member may be an issue as well. Every Year both ADK and AMC memberships are on the rise. I know several people who thought they were not getting there money worth for what they feel they get from it and have left.
I myself weigh it every year around membership time.
WSC

I disagree on many principals the AMC has adopted lately and refuse to join because I can not conciensiously do so. If this were the AMC of 50 years ago I would most assuredly dish out the money, but until some changes are made I will continue to support the good (by buying the AMC guide and maps, participating in the adopt-a-trail program, etc.) but will not contribute to the part I feel has been corrupted.

Brian

What incentive, really, is there to join a hiking club today?

$3.00 parking at the ADk loj information center.

Between ADK and AMC Memberships, I think I was at $100/year. I used to do workshops and lead trips for both organizations, but it also seemed for years I was an anomaly - One of the younger folks in the chapters - I did many things with a very small group of people - Probably 3-4 that were like me - more conservative in general.

Now that I have children, I spend much more time with sports and scouting. I keep thinking I should consider going back, but then I wrestle with the fact that the folks that I meet in the clubs don't necessarily share the same ideas or thoughts as I.

I continue my 46er dues - in part because they are so reasonable, and they seem to operate with age old wisdom and common sense, which I appreciate. I have never really fully developed trust for ADK or AMC leadership.
If I am interesting in joining another group, it will be a smaller more "utilitarian group that simply wants to go out and hike - Foothills Trail Club, Allentown hiking club.....

cushetunk said:

What incentive, really, is there to join a hiking club today?

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The Stickers.

The CT AMC has a great climbing group. I've gotten free instruction through them that would have cost hundreds through, say, EMS. There's also a hut/camp here that's available to members in the winter near the MA border, near the AT. So those are reasons. I also enjoy warming up, getting water and using the facilities at the huts in NH. As a member I can do that without guilt. I'm no expert in these matters, but it seems to me that alot of the land we take for granted, parking on and hiking through, would be a Condo Development if it weren't for some of these groups.

I don't think the few bucks for a membership is poorly spent.

Chip said:

I'm no expert in these matters, but it seems to me that alot of the land we take for granted, parking on and hiking through, would be a Condo Development if it weren't for some of these groups.

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Quite true, which is why I am a PROUD member of the Society for the protection of New Hampshires Forests (SPNHF). There are plenty of conservation groups out there for people who don't like the AMC, but still want to "belong" to a club. WODC and RMC are a couple of great organizations that seem to get overlooked in the grand picture, which is pretty sad really.

Brian

NewHampshire said:

I disagree on many principals the AMC has adopted lately and refuse to join because I can not conciensiously do so.

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Can we discuss this without having the thread closed ? The AMC is not a government agency, they need to raise funds and make money to support their programs. I really don't know what principals have been adopted that would affect my conscience.

NewHampshire said:

If this were the AMC of 50 years ago I would most assuredly dish out the money,...

Brian

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I'm really not trying to pick a fight Brian. I wasn't here 50 years ago. I'm a member now as a sort of "thank-you" to them for the work they were doing 50 and 100 years ago.

Hey Chip, its quite alright. You ask valid questions and indeed I am not sure how much the mods here will allow me to expand on this so I will simply state that I think the AMC has sort of turned their backs on the "bread and butter" hiker in favor of catering to those weekenders with large wallets whos onyl experience with the AMC will ever be the Highland Center or Pinkham notch Visitor center. I also had to shake my head when I started seeing all the things coming from the Maine Woods Initiative. Also, charging what they do for hut stays seems a bit ludicrus (more so for those members already paying a lot of money in membership fees.....c'mon, at least give THEM an honest discount!) The huts were supposed to be part of some grandios chain of hostles along the AT to aid folks thru hiking. Now we have Thru hikers doing chores for the privelige of sleeping in dank basements below the huts for the night.

Giggy once told me "check out the board of directors for the AMC...they are all Mass businessmen." And indeed it seems like the current AMC is more about running like a mdern business and not a true "outdoor" club. This of course dose not extend to those lower down in the chain, like the Adopt-a-trail program and similar programs. The folks running those programs are well grounded and a pleasure to work with.

Where is Joe Dodge when we need him most.......

Brian

Fare enough, Fair enough ?? Whatever. I understand the huts are freakin ridiculously expensive, but if you look at their budget they are losing money (if you want to believe them) on their education and making up for it with membership and fund raising. The hut system looks to be a slight money maker. So I don't pay to stay in the huts, but I always stop by and use them when there's one available. If I knew more about the financials I might not join, but then again, the group here in CT, for climbing, is definately worth it.

Why spend the money on membership for these organizations? For me I feel that they do a significant service to all of us as a hiking and outdoors community. I'm sure there might be small niche organizations which may suit any individuals tastes and ideas more closely but I believe that the reality is that it is better to have a larger advocacy organization with more resources to get things done on a legislative level than a number of smaller groups each with their own agendas. Perhaps a large organized group of rugged individualists is an oxymoron, but IMHO smaller groups will have a much lesser chance of success in furthering their goals and mine than a single voice, especially if well funded.

I have not found any organization (or person for that matter) with whom I agree 100% of the time. Our opponents often are well funded and speak with one voice. We need to do the same. I bet most of us who read and post here have more in common than not in our views on many environmental issues. And even if we don't, at least we care. I want an organization that cares but that also has some clout and has a good chance to do positive things. Any of us is free to become active and work toward driving the agendas of these organizations in the directions we believe in. Remember, Divide and conquer has been a winning strategy from the beginning of time.

I used to go with the amc all the time(in winter) because they were the only show in town. They were fairly hard core and into long hikes and bushwhacks to remote peaks. The last couple hikes I went with them on, we turned around half way up because 'some trees were down, and what if we had to litter someone out?'. unbelieveable. Maybe there is a liability problem now, I don't know. I don't know if its an urban legend, but a few years ago, a story went around regarding a hike up monadnock, where the leader turned the group around near the top because it started sprinkling. It just seems like it isn't the amc I used to know. I'm sure there are days also where you could go with them and have a nice time. What with the advent of new hiking forums, it seems less rigid and more fun.

...and the WVAIA

NewHampshire said:

WODC and RMC are a couple of great organizations that seem to get overlooked in the grand picture, which is pretty sad really.
Brian

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Great organizations indeed! Please lets not forget the WVAIA (the Waterville Valley Athletic and Improvent Association) which has been maintaining the trails in the WV area since 1888. http://wvaia.org/

Harry

I was a member of the AMC but that is no longer the case.

I've never been on an AMC outing of any type and can't comment on their methods.

I have been subjected to their aggressive fundraising techniques and as a result am no longer a member. The focus I received was most likely my own fault, - I made a couple contributions to trails maintenance. Soon after they seemed to know, or at least thought they knew, where there was an open checkbook.

Unfortunate. I wouldn't be surprised to learn this behavior is responsible for more lost members than just me.