Rescue helicopter encounter

This is an odd question, but I'm somewhat stumped.

Yesterday, while climbing Liberty and Flume, there were at least two rescue copters in the air and apparently searching Franconia Ridge.

When I returned back to Liberty, a helicopter was about 20 yards off the summit, maybe 40 yards away.

What is the appropiate response?

I figure waving might indicate that I was in need of rescue, so I just backed off the summit a bit and watched as they blasted a cloud of snow off the trees, took off and circled back.

The second time they hovered over the summit for a bit and seemed to be looking at this fool on the summit a bit longer.

My Jedi mind-control skills being weak, was there any signal I could have made that would clearly indicate that I wasn't the droid they were looking for?

Additionally, does anyone have any further information on this effort? I had hoped this was a training exercise, but a friend suggested that it was not.

There was a rescue off Lafayette yesterday about 5:30 PM. See this thread .

A couple years ago I bought a little plastic card set that has some survival information on it. Contained within it is some basic signals you can use to communicate to helicopter rescuers. One is a "No I do not need help" signal. I have done some searching around for some online descriptions and this seems to be the best so far:

http://www.rega.ch/en/dateien/rega/PDF_Merkblatt_en_07.pdf

Scroll down towards the bottom of the FIRST page for a diagram of proper hand signaling.

Brian

That looks to be a Swiss site, though. I didn't see any indication that those signals are internationally understood. Does anyone in VFTT-land know for sure?

-vegematic

vegematic said:

That looks to be a Swiss site, though. I didn't see any indication that those signals are internationally understood. Does anyone in VFTT-land know for sure?

-vegematic

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Yes it is Swiss. Unfortunately it was tough finding an American site, but if it helps I also found a site describing the same signals, one from Slovakia and another from Peru.

Brian

EDIT: I also found this site that has some other basic signals http://www.altygen.com/LinkedDocuments/O-0703.PDF. While it does not specifically show "We do not need help" it does have some other useful signals that may benifit you in an emergency.

Try chapter 5 from FM 21-60, or this link.

The following also contain Ground-to-Air signals (but not body signals):
* Freedom of the Hills, 5ed or earlier
* Medicine for Mountaineering

Doug

Scrolling down Nessmuk's second link also shows one arm up (other down) to signal all is okay. Which is good to know as I have several times waved to aircraft flying low, not frantically, but a brief one arm wave and then kept walking. Some times they wave back

McRat said:

What is the appropiate response?

I figure waving might indicate that I was in need of rescue, so I just backed off the summit a bit and watched as they blasted a cloud of snow off the trees, took off and circled back.

The second time they hovered over the summit for a bit and seemed to be looking at this fool on the summit a bit longer.

My Jedi mind-control skills being weak, was there any signal I could have made that would clearly indicate that I wasn't the droid they were looking for?

Click to expand...

Even if you do not know the official signals, you can most likely indicate that you are ok. Someone who knows that he is in trouble and wants rescue would most likely be waving frantically and trying to make himself seen. So a small ("Hi there") wave to indicate that you see them but are not frantic might be sufficient. Or make an "OK" sign and point to yourself.

Doug

carole said:

Scrolling down Nessmuk's second link also shows one arm up (other down) to signal all is okay. Which is good to know as I have several times waved to aircraft flying low, not frantically, but a brief one arm wave and then kept walking. Some times they wave back

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One arm waving or straight up is recognized as everything is OK. Always try to make the effort to not wave both arms as that can be interpreted as there might be a problem. Two arms waving is usually recognized as do not land here or that there may be a problem at that location. After eye contact is made laying supine is an indication that medical assistance is needed and will probably not be misinterpreted by the aircrew.

Keith

If you're going supine, try not to do it in the likely landing zone if you can move away. Where's the likely landing zone? The biggest, flattest, clearest patch you can see around you. If you go supine and they do fly off, fear not -- they're looking for a bigger/flatter/clearer patch nearby.

Never approach a helicopter until instructed to do so by the crew. Follow those instructions exactly.

Never walk around the back end of a helicopter. Tail rotors kill more people than main rotors because people do not see tail rotors.

Never approach a helicopter while wearing a loose hat or other object that can be taken up in the rotor wash.

Never leave anything lighter than you on the ground under the helicopter, e.g., poles, empty sled, Atticus, etc. (Brutus is an exception to this rule, Rooney. )

Never walk downhill toward a helicopter that is on a slope. Walk well around it first if you must approach it, and approach only from the downhill side and only at the direction of the crew.

Never get sick in the helicopter. If you must get sick, use your helmet, your pack, your parka hood, your buddy's parka hood, or anything else at hand. Helicopters are sensitive to the contents of sensitive stomachs.

If you're on the ground near a helicopter and the you-know-what is about to hit the fan, make yourself as flat as you can. Thousands of pieces, large and small, are about to come off the helicopter. You have no hope of outrunning them -- you're going to get fragged if you're upright.

We were in a similar situation in the Kenai Fiords. A CG copter passed over us low,with a crew member in survival gear,hanging out, checking us out. They were looking for the crew from a sailboat dismasted in the storm the night before. Not knowing what he would interpret as "we're ok",I gave him a divers "I'm ok " signal,and he waved as they passed.
The crew of the boat was found and dropped a way down the bay to stay in a cabin,until they could be taken out by boat.

McRat said:

The second time they hovered over the summit for a bit and seemed to be looking at this fool on the summit a bit longer.

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Fool? Wow.

dug said:

Fool? Wow.

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Good ole McRat......he is our king of Fools! (Fools Scouts that is )

Brian

Two thoughts;

I was once high on summit when a pavehawk came in and hovered right near us. We had been benighted and knew the rescue was for us. We were fine but delayed but had no earthly idea how to communicate to the helicopter. Seems to me that they should have a loud speaker to give instructions - "Raise your hands if you are OK!".

Warning - years ago a guy starved to death in the Brooks Range. A rescue plane came by and he gave the European HELP signal which (as the story goes) is the North American OK signal. So the plane left and he eventually died.

I'm sure if you threw a rock or a snowball at the chopper they'd get the hint and buzz off.

Also, what you're doing in your avatar: that would have made them go away or at least ignore you as well.

-Dr. Wu

dr_wu002 said:

I'm sure if you threw a rock or a snowball at the chopper they'd get the hint and buzz off.

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Let me suggest that you not actually try this--you could damage the rotor and cause the helicopter to crash. And even if you do not damage the aircraft, the thrown object could be turned into a missile aimed at you (by impact with the blades or the downwash).

Doug

DougPaul said:

Let me suggest that you not actually try this--you could damage the rotor and cause the helicopter to crash. And even if you do not damage the aircraft, the thrown object could be turned into a missile aimed at you.

Doug

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I think the absurdity of my suggestion was probably enough to persuade him that it wasn't a good idea. In addition, some of these military helicopters are also equipment with their own "projectile launching devices" that are probably a lot more sophisticated and effective at eliminating threat than a flung snowball is.

I think McRat should do the thing he's doing in his avatar. The helicopter pilot would figure that anyone who does that doesn't get a ride, no matter what.

I hope you weren't being serious! Or you must have a very low opinion of McRat's capacity to reason (he's a smart guy, I think!). McRat (or anyone) would have to be an idiot, maybe even a psycho with a deathwish to throw snowballs at a rescue chopper!!!

-Dr. Wu

dr_wu002 said:

I think the absurdity of my suggestion was probably enough to persuade him that it wasn't a good idea. In addition, some of these military helicopters are also equipment with their own "projectile launching devices" that are probably a lot more sophisticated and effective at eliminating threat than a flung snowball is.

I think McRat should do the thing he's doing in his avatar. The helicopter pilot would figure that anyone who does that doesn't get a ride, no matter what.

I hope you weren't being serious! Or you must have a very low opinion of McRat's capacity to reason (he's a smart guy, I think!). McRat (or anyone) would have to be an idiot, maybe even a psycho with a deathwish to throw snowballs at a rescue chopper!!!

-Dr. Wu

Click to expand...

Modern military rotor blades are designed to withstand several impacts from 12.7mm or .50 cal rounds and the rotor heads/transmissions are designed to withstand 23mm. So the actual threat isn't from the rotor blade damage. It is from the pilot and crew of the chopper when they get their hands on you.


Keith

SAR-EMT40 said:

Modern military rotor blades are designed to withstand several impacts from 12.7mm or .50 cal rounds and the rotor heads/transmissions are designed to withstand 23mm. So the actual threat isn't from the rotor blade damage. Its is from the pilot and crew of the chopper when they get their hands on you.


Keith

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or, as I said, their own projectile launching devices.

I think this was a case of me naively stumbling into Doug Paul's trap. That would be pretty sad if you could take down a military helicopter with snowballs.

McRat: did you ever see "Tommy Boy"? There was a scene where drunken Tommy and Richard scared off some police officers by pretending to be covered by killer bees. That might work. You especially have you yell out, "your firearms are useless against them!" as that appeared to work to great effect in the movie.

-Dr. Wu