2 catskill questions?

first: becouse of the high gas prices, I want to get 2 hikes for one. I want to hike huckleberry point, Kaaterskill peak and Kaaterskill clove. Which way is better to climb kaaterskill peak, from the north or from the south? The north would be a shorter drive for me coming from central NY.

second: What is the rattle snake situation in the spring. I want to do overlook in a few weeks. Is there any precaution I should do on the summit? Also, if I take the side trail to echo lake, are there any snakes down there?


P.S: why is Overlook such a hotbed for snakes when others are not?

Surely, if you are going to do Huckleberry point, hiking from the South is a much better option (Parking at the Long Path trailhead south of KHP). Be aware that Platte Clove road is supposedly closed from May 5th (today) to the end of the month, however, that mostly affects folks approaching the trailhead from the south. From the north, you'd still better access the trailhead via Tannersville.

Hiking from the south, it is also customary to either take the trail all the way to the snowmobile loop around KHP, but you can whack back to the LP, a very common approach would be to go up over the north face of KHP and then down the south face, all on a semi-blazed unmaintained herdpath and then whack back to the LP just to make the hike a bit shorter, you can start to whack just after the plane wreck that is right off the snowmobile trail for a good handrail. Just be careful with the south face of KHP if it's wet or the herdpath if you hike with a dog, some of it is kind of scrambly, the north face is typically quite doable for dogs.

Can't really answer your snake question, but Overlook is very most southernish of the high peaks with nice south and east facing ledges, good exposure to the sunlight, which is a plus for snakes... You'll find snakes in the hudson valley all doing the same thing..

As far as the trail to Echo lake, I don't think they have the same snake dens as Overlook itself, being down in the valley between Overlook and Plattekill mtn.

Jay

The snakes will be looking for some warm rocks this time of year and the last thing they want is for one of us to step on one. If you come up the Woodstock side, you're on the road up past the old hotel and any snakes would be very visible.
Beyond the ruins is a short trail thru the woods.

If you were going to see one, I'd guess it would be on the rocks along the summit and again, out in the open.

Alan

Rattlesnake dens are reported to be near the trail to Tremper, too.

For ever, rattlesnakes were found only on Overlook and Tremper, but recently they have been found in other, traditionly snake free areas. Global Warming?
I would be alert any where in that area around Overlook. KHP from the top of PlatteClove Rd., with Hucklebery point, then a drive around to Katerskill Clove.(Presuming you are going to the falls)?
If you are taking Bailey up KHP, the Nouth is easier, although I have hoisted my chow/lab up and down the South side( where the views are).

Adk_dib said:

P.S: why is Overlook such a hotbed for snakes when others are not?

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The sections of the Catskill forest with mountain laurel, pitch pine, and scrub oak are good habitats for rattlesnakes. The thinner foliage cover provides adequate sunlight which is needed by the rattlesnakes. This is found along the southern and eastern escarpments and some far western area of the Catskills. But in general this vegetation is not found in the interior of the Catskills. The lower sections of the Plattekill and Kaaterskill Cloves, Echo Lake, and the Vernooy Kill area have rattlesnakes along with Overlook, Plattekill, and Tremper Mountains.

For the same reason rattlesnakes are found around Lake George in the Adirondacks, but not in the High Peaks and other interior sections.

Other nonpoisonous snakes are found throughout the Catskills.

Mark Schaefer said:

T

Other nonpoisonous snakes are found throughout the Catskills.

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That would be nonvenomous snakes! Venom is injected, poison is injested.

Jay

Adk_dib said:

first: becouse of the high gas prices, I want to get 2 hikes for one. I want to hike huckleberry point, Kaaterskill peak and Kaaterskill clove. Which way is better to climb kaaterskill peak, from the north or from the south? The north would be a shorter drive for me coming from central NY.

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Interesting question-if you are talking all in one day, you might be trying to squeeze in a lot. Like Mudhook, I'm assuming when you mention wanting to hike Kaaterskill Clove, you mean Kaaterskill Falls? The Clove itself has a major road through it, although there are places you could pull off and park to take in views and maybe explore a little on foot.

Kaaterskill High Peak is an interesting mountain because it lies between two cloves-the one with which it shares it's name and also Platte Clove. Based on where you are coming from, I don't think it will make a big difference which of trailheads you drive to for the KHP approach. That's in terms of the drive. If you intend to hit Kaaterskill Falls, that's another trailhead which is seperate from both of the main trailhead approaches to KHP.

As for the hike itself, both approaches to KHP are nice, but if you want to hit Huckleberry Point on the same day-hike, coming from the south makes a lot more sense, as Jay points out. Doing KHP and Huckleberry Point together would make a pretty solid day, but doable. But if you are more interested in Kaaterskill Clove, the north approach makes more sense. Approaching KHP from the north, you start a lot lower down (Palenville) and have some road walking at first. Higher up there are some nice waterfalls and viewpoints overlooking the Clove.

That whole area is really scenic. The cloves and the escarpment are some of the things that make the Catskills really special. If you only have one day, you might have some tough decisions. Or just hike fast!

Matt

Also, as for Overlook, I wouldn't worry about the snakes, just the fact that you are aware of their being there indicates that you shouldn't have a problem. Peakbagr is probably correct that the summit itself is the mostly likely spot where they might be seen basking. If they are out, just keep your distance and enjoy viewing them.

If you are not going for a few weeks, and if you go on a weekend, then in all liklihood there will be one or two volunteer summit stewards up there between 11 and 4. If the weather is clear, the tower will be open.

Matt

MattC said:

Also, as for Overlook, I wouldn't worry about the snakes, just the fact that you are aware of their being there indicates that you shouldn't have a problem. Peakbagr is probably correct that the summit itself is the mostly likely spot where they might be seen basking. If they are out, just keep your distance and enjoy viewing them.

If you are not going for a few weeks, and if you go on a weekend, then in all liklihood there will be one or two volunteer summit stewards up there between 11 and 4. If the weather is clear, the tower will be open.

Matt

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Almost at the top, there are signs that say to stay on the trail, these are to keep you away from the snakes!

Why is Platte Clove Road closed?

halia and flammeus said:

Why is Platte Clove Road closed?

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The road has been kept in very good condition in recent years. No major work appears to be needed. It is probably just routine maintenance. Perhaps repaving a few sections, clearing drainage channels, or fixing the few guard rails that are there. The closing was mentioned in this adkhighpeaks thread.

Thanks for the info!

Last time I was up on KHP we were not bothered by snakes - it was humans on four-wheelers that rattled our cages! Are those vehicles permitted on the snowmobile trail?

I've stumbled upon timber rattlers in the Taconics (Alander Mountain), but not in the Catskills (yet). Is it true that there are eastern diamondback rattlers in some parts of Dutchess county? I've heard that they are there (Chestnut Ridge in Dover Plains), but I've also heard that timber rattlers are the only rattlesnakes in this region. Just wondering...


halia

halia and flammeus said:

Last time I was up on KHP we were not bothered by snakes - it was humans on four-wheelers that rattled our cages! Are those vehicles permitted on the snowmobile trail?

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Yes, there is nothing in the current nor proposed revised Catskill Master Plan, nor in the Kaaterskill Wild Forest Unit Management Plan that restricts ATVs from using the snowmobile trail. The snowmobile trail is the primary reason why the Kaaterskill unit is a Wild Forest rather than a Wilderness Area. Snowmobiles and ATVs will not be allowed in any Catskill Wilderness Area under the proposed revisions. However, they are allowed in Wild Forests. ATVs are banned from all specifically designated foot trails, but that that ban does not apply to a motorized snowmobile trail. Under the proposed revisions snowmobiles and ATVs will be banned in all areas above 2700'. However, the Kaaterskill snowmobile trail which exceeds this limit is being exempted from the 2700' rule because it is a preexisting trail. This is all based upon my reading of the plans. I would be happy to be incorrect.

I've stumbled upon timber rattlers in the Taconics (Alander Mountain), but not in the Catskills (yet). Is it true that there are eastern diamondback rattlers in some parts of Dutchess county? I've heard that they are there (Chestnut Ridge in Dover Plains), but I've also heard that timber rattlers are the only rattlesnakes in this region. Just wondering...

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There are timber rattlesnakes throughout Dutchess County, although they are relatively rare in most areas. They are present near the Taconic Ridge, e.g. Rudd Pond, at Thompson Pond near Stissing Mountain, in the Beacon Mountains, and other similar areas.

halia and flammeus said:

I've stumbled upon timber rattlers in the Taconics (Alander Mountain), but not in the Catskills (yet). Is it true that there are eastern diamondback rattlers in some parts of Dutchess county? I've heard that they are there (Chestnut Ridge in Dover Plains), but I've also heard that timber rattlers are the only rattlesnakes in this region. Just wondering...


halia

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Yes, there are Eastern Diamond Back rattlesnakes in Dutchess, Orange, Rockland, and Westchester Counties, NY. I've seen them at Schenumunk, Harriman, South Taconics, Cat Rocks on the AT south of Pawling, Hudson Highlands, North Salem, Mianus River Gorge...I've also seen them as far North as Jonesville, VT, where my dog Charlie Brown was killed by a bite of a rattler while we were backpacking the LT.

Wow... I had thought the eastern diamond back on chestnut ridge was just a rumor. My understanding was that the eastern diamond back is extremely rare - has the population changed, or is it just thought to be so rare because sighting are unusual?

Flammeus and the canines (my belgians, Iske and Lily) and I send our condolences re: Charlie Brown. It must have been hard to lose him like that. Iske is our patron saint of hiking disasters - I believe that she gets hurt so that we don't.

happy mother's day
Halia

halia and flammeus said:

I send our condolences re: Charlie Brown. It must have been hard to lose him like that. .

happy mother's day
Halia

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Thank you for your kind words...it still ranks as the worst day of my life.
RIP, CB.