Survey markers on the trails

[My first post, please be kind]

I was mountain biking with a VFFT friend yesterday around the cross country trails of Waterville Valley and noticed survey tape on the ground 100-200 ft or so. When I first noticed this, I figured it was left over debris from the ski season, but when I tried to pick up this "litter" it was nailed into the ground. Upon further inspection I saw that there was a cluster of 3 markers, 2 on trees one on the ground, making a triangle or 3-d pyramid if connected.

This was not limited to a single trail. Any thoughts on who would be doing this and why? My first thought would be a google-like street view or more accurate GPS.

Is this "mapping" limited to the Waterville area, or have others seen it? I can tell you these markers were not there last week.

MikeF

What color was it? How far apart were they? Was there any type of stake or something nailed anywhere? By 'markers', do you mean just the flagging?

Often, when establishing a control point in the ground a surveyor will establish two more points (nailed to a tree or something) and record the distance from the control point to the two other points. It will then make it easier to find your original point should it get buried. Make sense?

Now, since Waterville has a lot of private property in and around the trails, these points were probably the result of recent survey activity. If they were near a trail, I would guess they were used to establish where the lot lines are. These are not necessarily ON a lot line, they are just points that are known to be accurate, which can then be used to establish a lot line by 'shooting' off those points. They are sometimes referred to as 'traverse points'. Does that make sense?

Welcome to VFTT by the way

The markers were orange but clearly in the national forest. More than 1/2 mile from the national forest marker and heading towards Livermore road (away from town). There we no stakes, as they used trees and the ground to make their triangle. The width of the triangle was about 10 ft.

I would agree that this would be private land survey if it was near any private land, but this was on more than 1 trail that I was on and there wasn't any private land around.

MikeF

Might be used for some trail activity/locating/moving, etc.

Does sound correct with what they were doing (one point as a control point, the other two to help find the original). Orange usually is considered for informational only, not to establish boundries.

Not a clue as to the "why" of the activity, though. Were they faded?

See also this thread:

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20191


Tim

The nail in the ground IS the point used by the surveyor--the transit is set up over that point.

dug is right about everything. Sometimes the traverse points are set quite far outside the property lines in order to get good sight lines to corners, etc. They're set in reference to known (i.e., established) points and are temporary but often needed for several days or more.

As to why they're surveying, .

Land of Many Uses

Welcome aboard...You might have stumbled upon a future logging site. Yes, I know that "logging" a bad word in the hiking/backpacking communities, but you have to remember...The White Mountain National Forest is a "Multi-Use" arrangement. Those words "Land of Many Uses" are not just words carved into to signs. They (the Forest Rangers) are under federal law to make available lands for hiking (wilderness areas), Tourism (all those road side attractions up and down the Kanc.), and logging (all those gated dirt road seemingly leading nowhere) which, by the way are open for walking and mountain biking.
Most logging site are very well camouflaged, with uncut strips between the clear cutting and the roads or trail.
The forest is in constant change. Some changes are man made, some from mother nature.
Just remember, if they cut it, it will grow back. If they build on it...It's gone forever

See you on the long brown path....Walker

Is that what all those holes punched into the trees are? You know, the ones that are visible on Google Earth / Google Maps? They look like cookies cut out of rolled-out dough.

Like here:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=44.242801,-71.381092&spn=0.046362,0.11467&t=h&z=14

I assumed these are logging clear cuts, but now seems like a good time to inquire further.

Tim

yes, those "holes" are logging spots. They're all over the whites. Check them out over on Tripoli Road near East and Southeast of Russell Pond.

Crop circles

bikehikeskifish said:

I assumed these are logging clear cuts, but now seems like a good time to inquire further.

Click to expand...

Me, I assumed the were like super-scale crop-circles caused by aliens landing.

When I first saw the satellite shots on Google Maps, I really did wonder... I guess I assumed they were clear-cuts, but I didn't really "get" why they were so round, or so "dotted" around. I have stumbled over a couple of them in the last few years, and have to say, at least a few years on as the new growth fills in, they're not as perfectly awful as I would have expected from the satellite photos. I guess the renewal cycle here isn't all that different than if there had been a small natural burn (or a big blow-down, like happened in Waterville Valley back in the 80s).

My feelings, of course, are colored by the fact that we're looking at somewhat gnarly second-growth forest around where I live -- if these were stands of old-growth forest, I am sure I would feel very differently about the 'crop-circles'.