Lyme...bulls eye rash...spider bites?

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My understanding and that is all it is, is that the spirochetes in later stages can get into the tendons and ligament, causing the arthritic symptoms. Whats worse is that the tendons and ligaments have poor blood supply which makes it very difficult for antibiotics to actually get to them to kill them. That is when the long term use of antibiotics by IV seems to be indicated but even with that, it seems very difficult to eradicate all the little buggers.
During later stages, which may be days to months after the original illness, headaches, fatigue, a stiff neck, and pain and swelling in joints and muscles may appear. Even later, in the third stage, serious nervous system, joint, and skin complications may develop in untreated patients.
J. A. Wilkerson, Medicine for Mountaineering, 5th ed, p 205.
The effects of Lyme disease are similar to those of syphilis, another spirochete.


FWIW, I count 7 tick borne diseases in the infections chapter of the above reference:
* Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
* Ehrlichiosis
* Relapsing Fever (Tick Fever)
* Tularemia
* Lyme disease
* Colorado Tick Fever
* Babesiosis

Doug
 
The effects of Lyme disease are similar to those of syphilis, another spirochete.


FWIW, I count 7 tick borne diseases in the infections chapter of the above reference:
* Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
* Ehrlichiosis
* Relapsing Fever (Tick Fever)
* Tularemia
* Lyme disease
* Colorado Tick Fever
* Babesiosis

Doug

Don't forget anaplasmosis, a tick-borne disease recently contracted by David Letterman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_granulocytic_anaplasmosis
 
medicine for 2 weeks if no rash...?

I did go to the docs the other day. She kept assuring us she knew everything there was to know about Lyme Disease.

She had Zero interest in seeing the documentary film...actualy said she doesn't see or read anything that isn't published by the American Journal of Medicine or some such thing.

She ordered up some blood work.
After expressing our concern that the results wouldn't be in till we were well up into Canada she gave us a script for Doxy..."don't take it till the results come in next week"

We fill the script to take with us and notice it's only for 2 weeks worth... it will run out when we are up north....

We call to find out why.
The answer ..?

Well, if you don't have the rash then you only need 2 weeks worth....3 weeks worth if you have a rash !!!

Is that an insurance scam or what ??

I can picture doctor "know everything" turning to her insurance chart...lets see body parts this much $$...no that's not it... let's see ...oh here we go Lyme Disease...Rashes 3 weeks med...no rash 2 weeks...ahh that's the ticket for this guy !
 
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Spider Solo - sorry your doc doesn't seem to take Lyme seriously. When I had it my doc didn't even bother to do the blood test - she said it was a waste of time and money, that there were many instances of false negatives, and that what it really shows is that you have (at some point in your life) been exposed to Lyme - not that you necessarily have it at the time of the blood test. I was lucky I guess, in that I had the bull's eye rash. She just went ahead and prescribed doxy for 21 days.

It's discouraging that even with what seems to be heightened awareness of this disease that the docs are still not considering it when assessing a patient and their symptons. Given the fact that the rash does not show up in as many cases as first thought, this is very troubling. It is even more troubling (IMO) with the swine flu making its appearance; I wonder how many cases of Lyme are being overlooked and thought to be swine instead.

On July 30, 2009, a newly formed panel from the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA) heard 8 hours of testimony from 18 presenters representing various viewpoints on Lyme disease diagnosis and treatment. This was the first time the two sides of the Lyme controversy have been given equal time in front of a conflict-free evidence-review panel.

This hearing came about as the result of an antitrust settlement initiated by Connecticut Attorney General, Richard Blumenthal in 2007. During his investigation, the Attorney General found substantial conflicts of interest among the 2006 panel members, who held commercial interests in diagnostic tests, vaccines, and insurance. In addition, he found that this panel had suppressed scientific evidence and had excluded opposing views from the panel.

Unfortunately, three days after the hearing, IDSA President, Ann Gerson, MD said this:

“The physicians and scientists who wrote the Infectious Disease Society of America’s (ISDA) guidelines thoroughly reviewed all the medical evidence and took great care to address the claims made by the small minority of physicians who advocate long-term antibiotic use.”

“The notion that the authors had financial conflicts of interest is absurd to anyone who has read the guidelines, which recommend generic tests and a short course of generic drugs.”

Lorraine Johnson, the champion of the Lyme patients who organized much of the ILADS evidence, had this to say:

“This hearing shows that the weight of the science falls on the side of providing patients with treatment options. The speakers supporting the 2006 guidelines relied heavily on conjecture, belief and reputation, advancing an unsubstantiated somatic disorder hypothesis for possible explanations of why patients remain ill. Hypothesis, conjecture and beliefs are not science and hopefully this panel will recognize that and gut these guidelines.”

After the hearing, the IDSA requested nine copies of the film "Under Our Skin" which will be given to each of the panelists. Let's hope that the guidelines will really be gutted and changed as a result of this hearing.

You can view footage of the hearing and download hearing presentations here: http://webcast.you-niversity.com/idsaArchives/

Here is another link to a blog that is on the "Under Our Skin" website. While much is about the movie, there is some interesting reading. http://underourskin.com/blog/

This is also on the "Under Our Skin" website - the Faces of Lyme. It is very sobering. Just float your cursor over the photos and you will see a short quote from the person in the upper righthand corner of the site. One such comment: "I went to an infectious disease doctor in NY with a positive Lyme test, with the tick in a plastic bag, with a bite wound, with classic symptoms, and he still said 'I don't think you have Lyme.'"
 
There used to be a vaccine for Lyme disease but it went out of production I beleive because it was not being utilized.
It didn't work very well and there were complaints of autoimmune side-effects leading to negative publicity. (The CDC and FDA found no connection between the vaccine and the autoimmune complaints.)
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Vaccination

The complete article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease, appears to be a fairly comprehensive and balanced description of the disease, its treatment, and its controversies.

Doug
 
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We fill the script to take with us and notice it's only for 2 weeks worth... it will run out when we are up north....

We call to find out why.
The answer ..?

Well, if you don't have the rash then you only need 2 weeks worth....3 weeks worth if you have a rash !!!

Is that an insurance scam or what ??

The current recommendations based on two randomized controlled trials states that 2 weeks worth of antibiotics has equal efficacy as 3 weeks worth. However, if there is disseminated disease, than 3 weeks course is more efficacious and the use of an additional, stronger antibiotic is also warranted. Your physician is partly right, but the decision is not based on presence or absence of a rash, but on more severe symptoms.

I haven't read the whole thread, nor have I seen the documentary (hopefully it will be widely available soon) but, in general, there is no question that Lyme disease is present and a real threat. I don't know the data about chronic lyme disease thoroughly, but at times it is hard for the medical community to find "evidence." A study that was performed about continuing antibiotic treatment found no benefit, nor evidence of lyme (a randomized blinded study) nor any difference between physical exams when the examiner is blinded.

Now studies have their own shortcomings, but usually randomized double-blinded studies are quite powerful. I agree that financial disclosures are very important and those that are conducting the studies or sit on boards should not have any conflicts of interest. However, there is also a point to say that there is a real problem in funding for science. In general, there is a lack of funding for studies, especially large scale clinical studies. Private companies/foundations tend to be few and majority of science depend on federal funding that are highly competitive and really not enough to go around. What's left? Corporations, drug companies that, at best, have biased studies, because, in general, they are for profit. There probably should be more advocacy for science and funding for science.

It's a real dilemma for some diseases for the medical profession. Without evidence, it's hard to know how to treat. Otherwise, I can imagine doctors would treat everything with chicken noodle soup ;)
 
Thanks folKs for the continuing dialogue..

It is true I am a bit of a "doubting thomas' when talking to the doctor. Our regular doc, which we trusted a lot, moved on to another position and we have been bounced around a bit with those who took his place.

Last year when I 1st came down with it on a vacation we realized that the symptoms would disappear (ie rash) before we would get home to a doctor who would know what it was. Thankfully we had a bit of clarity of mind and took a photo of it or else it would have been a classic case of misunderstanding of what it looked like...

This year it's quite a leap of faith on our part to trust a doctor who disreguarded most every symptom that I carefully wrote down before the appt.
Then gave us a print out of sites and symptoms she did trust, to read when we got home....and there in plain sight were the symptoms I had just told her about...made us wonder if she had ever read her own info.?

For a bit of an analogy of trusted scientific reports..years ago in my folks house I came across a very impressive scientific paper on the wonderful benefits of DDT, and how mistaken and obviously biasedly wrong any person who disagreed with it (think Rachel Carson, who was widely vilivied for standing out against it).

but on the plus side I believe there was recently a report on the underlying benefits of ...you guessed... chicken soup.

We see the movie tomorrow, in the meantime we went to the library to get a couple of books to help educate ourselves, as best we can, on a subject that we thought would never remotely effect us...Lyme Disease
 
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