an example of the value of NH F&G

Here's a little reminder of the important job done by F&G. Without the fear of getting caught by F&G, poachers would wipe out the moose population very quickly. Personally, I'd like to see steeper fines to make it a more serious deterent.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Newsroom/News_2009/News_2009_Q1/Illegal_Moose_Taking_012609.html




Moose are not just for hunting, they are an important tourist attraction. So, if you have no sympathy for the animal itself, and no sympathy for hunting because you're not a hunter, there is also the local tourist economy that directly benefits from the service of F&G. When hikers travel to the White Mtns. they enjoy facilities that are supported by general tourism.

Whenever the issue of the F&G funding crisis comes up, there are always comments questioning or denouncing the worth of F&G. Noone else but F&G is here to stop poaching. Please remember that they do alot for the environment and the economy. ( I have no conection to F&G)

happy trails

As Accidents Editor of Appalachia I would like to remind you that F&G are the ones who will coordinate your rescue when you get into trouble in our mountains.

I agree the fine should be much, much steeper. Moose issues aside, it's dangerous and incredibly irresponsible to use a firearm without having the proper safety courses, obtaining the proper licenses, etc.

forestgnome said:

... Whenever the issue of the F&G funding crisis comes up, there are always comments questioning or denouncing the worth of F&G. Noone else but F&G is here to stop poaching. Please remember that they do alot for the environment and the economy. ( I have no conection to F&G)

happy trails

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This is off-topic but wanted to comment on the issue of the value of F&G: While I think it's bad public policy to charge the public for rescuing, and in NH the rescues are the jurisdiction of F&G, I don't for instant question the value of F&G, whether it be in NH or any other state. They provide a valuable service in protecting our wildlife.

It's the policy I have an issue with, not the agency who must enforce it.

Edit: Government is under enormous pressures with the economy collapsing, and personnel cuts are one of the first things to be go. So, expect stories in the press like this one, of the how the police stop dangerous criminals, of how important it is to keep the roads clear, etc. It's one of the ways we have public dialogues to help shape funding priorities.

Sadly there are way too few Conservation Officers (the official F&G designation for a game warden) to properly patrol the state. Poaching happens all the time and year round (especially in far northern NH from what I hear) and we only hear about when someone gets busted. But for every caught violator there is probably dozens more who get away with it. I once heard the stat (don't know how entirely accurate it is) that on average during hunting season there are 5 Conservation Officers available to patrol the entire state at any given time. And of that most CO's during the season team up to patrol poaching "trouble" spots.

Poaching and poachers make me sick.

Brian

NewHampshire said:

Sadly there are way too few Conservation Officers (the official F&G designation for a game warden) to properly patrol the state. Poaching happens all the time and year round (especially in far northern NH from what I hear) and we only hear about when someone gets busted. But for every caught violator there is probably dozens more who get away with it. I once heard the stat (don't know how entirely accurate it is) that on average during hunting season there are 5 Conservation Officers available to patrol the entire state at any given time. And of that most CO's during the season team up to patrol poaching "trouble" spots.

Poaching and poachers make me sick.

Brian

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I wholeheartedly agree. I'm reminded of a quote from Paul Dougherty's book, he quoted another CO who, when talking about the northern reaches of Coos County, said "there were so many jackers up there the deer have to walk backwards into the fields at night."
Good sense of humor for a sad, continuing situation.

forestgnome said:

Moose are not just for hunting, they are an important tourist attraction. So, if you have no sympathy for the animal itself, and no sympathy for hunting because you're not a hunter, there is also the local tourist economy that directly benefits from the service of F&G.

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Well said, very well said. Part of the attraction of going up to Pittsburg during the summer is the ease of seeing Moose. My young son enjoys our nightly trips to Moose Alley and my wife has taken some cool pics of them.

Thumbs up to F&G.

NH F&G are also responsible for rescue/recovery of water accidents. I was a member of a dive team and worked with them a few times. There work really puts closure for families.

It's slightly counter-intuitive, but: All "outdoor enthusiasts" (hikers, bikers, non-hunters, anti-hunters, violently opposed to harming animal people, etc.) should buy hunting and fishing licenses (and whatever other tags are available) to support F&G so they can do their job. It would also ease the pressure on having to charge for rescues.

Buying a license does not mean you approve of the activity, but of the enforcement of the regulations of the activity.

Chip said:

It's slightly counter-intuitive, but: All "outdoor enthusiasts" (hikers, bikers, non-hunters, anti-hunters, violently opposed to harming animal people, etc.) should buy hunting and fishing licenses (and whatever other tags are available) to support F&G so they can do their job. It would also ease the pressure on having to charge for rescues.

Buying a license does not mean you approve of the activity, but of the enforcement of the regulations of the activity.

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This is a really interesting idea. Thanks for suggesting it.

Chip said:

should buy hunting and fishing licenses (and whatever other tags are available) to support F&G so they can do their job. It would also ease the pressure on having to charge for rescues. .

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I've been toying with doing this for awhile. One question, however, do I have to take a gun safety course to purchase a hunting license?

MadRiver said:

I've been toying with doing this for awhile. One question, however, do I have to take a gun safety course to purchase a hunting license?

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Yes. You must have been a prior license holder or prove you've taken the necessary courses. See link below for all F&G license requirements. You can buy a fishing license without taking any courses.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Licensing/licenses.htm

Tim

You can buy a moose lottery chance for $15 for residents, $25 for nonresidents , without buying a hunting license or taking a hunter education course. The money goes into Fish & Game's budget.

If you happen to get drawn (very unlikely in your first year and extremely unlikely if you're not a resident), and you don't want to hunt moose, just surrender your chance and someone else in the drawing will be awarded the permit.

sardog1 said:

You can buy a moose lottery chance for $15 for residents, $25 for nonresidents , without buying a hunting license or taking a hunter education course. The money goes into Fish & Game's budget.

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When I first read your post I thought you wrote "mouse" lottery not "moose" lottery, and my reaction was "leave it up to NH to come up with a novel way to squeeze out a few bucks" but then re-read that sentence.

On reflection, why not have a "mouse" lottery on behalf of F&G? Might be a fun way for people to donate to a good cause, grand prize 10 pounds of Cheddar cheese, etc.

you could also buy a fishing license and trout and waterfowl stamps. you could develop an interest in firearms or archery, if you wanted, but I realize that's asking a bit much for the average hiker. I'd call the town hall and see what they'll sell you. The Moose Lottery idea is great, imagine if you got a tag !

Kevin Rooney said:

On reflection, why not have a "mouse" lottery on behalf of F&G? Might be a fun way for people to donate to a good cause, grand prize 10 pounds of Cheddar cheese, etc.

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What are mouse pelts going for these days ?

Chip said:

It's slightly counter-intuitive, but: All "outdoor enthusiasts" (hikers, bikers, non-hunters, anti-hunters, violently opposed to harming animal people, etc.) should buy hunting and fishing licenses (and whatever other tags are available) to support F&G so they can do their job. It would also ease the pressure on having to charge for rescues.

Buying a license does not mean you approve of the activity, but of the enforcement of the regulations of the activity.

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Chip makes an excellent point there.

Maybe we could think of it in the same class as ponying up annual membership dues to belong to a trail maintenance or advocacy group, even though we personally never swing a swizzle stick (outside of cocktail hour) or make a lobbying visit to the legislature. The dues support efforts by others that benefit activities we enjoy.

G.

Chip said:

What are mouse pelts going for these days ?

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Let me check with the cat and will get back to you ...

sardog1 said:

You can buy a moose lottery chance for $15 for residents, $25 for nonresidents , without buying a hunting license or taking a hunter education course. The money goes into Fish & Game's budget.

If you happen to get drawn (very unlikely in your first year and extremely unlikely if you're not a resident), and you don't want to hunt moose, just surrender your chance and someone else in the drawing will be awarded the permit.

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The only hitch here, as far as I can see, is that by participating in a lottery for a hunting permit you never plan to use, you reduce the chances of somebody getting a permit he or she does plan to use. It is a sort of "spoiler" behavior, in one sense.

Another thing to consider is that the number of permits to be offered in a lottery almost certainly reflects a biologically informed assessment of herd-habitat balance issues. In this case (like other hunting season and bag limit regulations) it is not simply a matter of recreation for the hunters, but of savvy resource management.

I don't think it is constructive to interfere unnecessarily with resource management efforts like this, even with the noblest of intentions advocated by sardog 1.

I do sort of like Kevin R's tongue-in-cheek suggestion about the mouse lottery. It appeals to my sense of whimsey. Besides, I have a ravenous appetite for good, natural sharp Cheddar cheese!

G.

When the moose lotteries started up, there were folks who opposed the hunt and advocated buying tickets to the lottery and if they won to not use the ticket as a means of protest. It was mostly a PR ploy, but I expect that various state fish and game departments gladly accepted the entry fee and if the tag wasnt filled, they could always try to up the number next year. I expect that their bigger concern is a bad hunt due to bad weather conditions the week of the hunt.

Unless someone is philisophically opposed to a moose hunt, if a non hunter gets a ticket, there will be all sorts of folks who will gladly sign up to be a subpermitee, so the ticket would not necessarilly be wasted.