Highways in the Whites

TDawg said:

Or how about if I-93, instead went the other proposed route when it was being built? Following (roughly) the path of the present day power line, past Bog Pond and through a low point in Kinsman Ridge north of Mt. Wolf over into Easton. Leaving Franconia Notch how it was...

Franconia maybe would of had the same feel of Evans Notch, just a winding country road. (if that's how it was, I'm too young to know from experience ) Or maybe like Crawford? But, I can't complain because the present day Franconia Notch is all I've ever known.

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Franconia Notch was no longer "pristine" in the sense that the Evans Notch and, to a lesser degree, Grafton Notch still are. As long as Cannon ski was there, the traffic would be there as well. It made no sense to disperse the traffic pattern so that both the Notch and the Easton Valley were able to carry high volumes. 116 residents waged a major and effective campaign against such nonsense. But, in turn, there was resistance to a full-scale interstate upgrade in the Notch, and you see the compromise today--no cloverleaf exit at Lafayette Place, two lanes not four, and the center barrier. All that kind of interstate nonsense would have wrecked some important and historic features of the Notch. As one who used to white-knuckle through winter storms in the Notch with a rear wheel drive car with no snow tires, the center barrier was a relief, but it has not been good for wildlife. Franconia Notch has always (at least since 1805) been a compromise between nature and culture, including hordes of hikers, and the configuration of I-93 fits within that pattern.

Hillwalker said:

I remember when my dad took us all up to see the landslide that closed Franconia Notch in 1948. Now whenever I take the Greenleaf trail I have memories of that scene. The trail crosses the slide path and you can still tell.

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Attached are a few pics from one of my geology talks that include a shot of Donald H. Chapman (deceased), my undergrad geo professor at UNH, standing on the toe of the 1959 slide across Rt. 3. I am working on a paper with two colleagues summarizing a 12,000-yr sediment record from Profile Lake documenting historic and pre-historic landslides off Walker Ridge and Eagle Cliff onto the floor of Franconia Notch. One of the pics is from Cannon Cliff before the Parkway was constructed, the only section of the Inter-state highway system that is not four lanes, I believe. A number of the local climbing guides feel that increased truck traffic after the highway reconstruction loosened up rock on the cliff even more than previously, and I think that this change may have hastened the collapse of the Old Man. There are also many who disagree with me on this idea.

Dr. Dasypodidae said:

One of the pics is from Cannon Cliff before the Parkway was constructed, the only section of the Inter-state highway system that is not four lanes, I believe. A

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I am relatively sure that the term "parkway" was not a typo on all the signs put up in the 1980s for the new road through Franconia Notch, but rather to differentiate it from the "highway". This would be done specifically to circumvent the federal requirements for what an interstate highway is supposed to be (minimum design speed, curve radius, two or more lanes, etc). Otherwise they would have had to raze the entire rich geological area.

Then again I am not certain, for while the exits start over at 1 on the parkway, the mile posts do not reset to zero. I was under the impression that the while on state park land, the interstate stopped, making 93 non-contiguous.

If anybody knows for sure about this status of the parkway a section of interstate (not that it really matters in the grand scheme) I'd like to know.

andrewb said:

If anybody knows for sure about this status of the parkway a section of interstate (not that it really matters in the grand scheme) I'd like to know.

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According to Wikipedia (so it must be fact, right? ), I-93 becomes a "super-2" parkway through Franconia, but is still nonetheless I-93. I believe most, if not all (with the exception of three digits) Interstates are continuous (whereas US designated routes, such as US-2, are not).

IIRC when the parkway first opened the mile markets did indeed reset and the exits were numbered 1, 2, and 3. Only later did it become truly part of I-93. There was a section of I-90 in Idaho that did a similar thing, it even had a traffic light. But I think that section of road has been upgraded.

andrewb said:

I am relatively sure that the term "parkway" was not a typo on all the signs put up in the 1980s for the new road through Franconia Notch, but rather to differentiate it from the "highway".

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Intermission: Why is it we drive on a 'parkway' and park on a 'driveway'?

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion. (Which is great by the way.)

[QUOTE= Why is it we drive on a 'parkway' and park on a 'driveway'?

That is a very interesting point. It probably has it's roots in the fact that we use one of the most confusing language in the world. There is a great book "The Giant Panda Eats Shoots and Leaves". With a little punctuation added, it can be "The Giant Panda Eats, Shoots, and Leaves."
Sorry for the digression.

andrewb said:

If anybody knows for sure about this status of the parkway a section of interstate (not that it really matters in the grand scheme) I'd like to know.

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Somewhere in one of the Wikipedia pages I linked out to the FHWA regulation that specifically exempts FNP from Interstate requirements, allowing I-93 to be continuous. John Allen's page on the bike path has some comments on the history, including pictures from Yours Truly (with captions taken straight out of my email to him, thus a little chattier than I'd normally put on the web). Cramming an awful lot through a narrow, environmentally sensitive space...my favourite quote is "20-year campaign of the State of NH to complete I-93, more or less over the dead body of the Appalachian Mountain Club."

David Metsky said:

IIRC when the parkway first opened the mile markets did indeed reset and the exits were numbered 1, 2, and 3. Only later did it become truly part of I-93.

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I agree with this statement although I can't prove it, the I-93 markers in the notch were relatively recent.

When first built there was no divider in the center at the request of the environmental groups, but there were plastic wands to discourage U-turns. The center guardrail came later, perhaps when it became I-93?

I think there could have been more improvements such as parking at the A.T. crossing, and an overpass at Lafayette Place that would ultimately save a lot of gas.

DougPaul said:

So 93 mostly means more traffic plus heavy trucks and parking lots set back from the road.

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Not only are there defined parking lots rather than random roadside picnic tables, they are fewer and bigger.

As to trucks, I'm not sure that 93 increased traffic (how else do you get to North Country which is mostly in decline rather than growth mode) but it did improve traffic flow via more climbing lanes and less entering/turning traffic.

DougPaul said:

Current Evans Notch is much wilder than Franconia Notch was back then.

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There is a story that the Crawford Notch RR would have gone through Evans Notch except for a surveyor who didn't want to disturb his favorite place, but I disbelieve it because it's too far out of the way. Basically Evens Notch is not on a major traffic corridor hence will tend to be less developed.

wardsgirl said:

The road was definitely a narrow one! Does anyone remember when the present 'parkway' was built? I seem to remember driving on a gravel surface for awhile.

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Definitely, Wardsgirl... I was in college at PSC then, and was (in my young/dumb way) more or less against the whole idea of the parkway... partially because I liked it the way it was, and partially because I had heard some abstract discussion that the vibration from construction or more truck traffic could hasten the demise of the Old Man (OK, so that happened, but probably not hastened by the parkway).

In the fullness of time, it seems to me that the parkway was a very good thing both from a safety perspective and from an aesthetic perspective. It just works. As Dave says, not much different than the Old Route 3, but IMHO, an improvement none the less.

Of course this discussion makes me think about Interstate 92 and Interstate 94, had they happened...

In regard to I-93 through Franconia Notch, according to interstate-guide.com:

The section of Interstate 93 that runs along the two-lane Franconia Notch Parkway is technically not a part of Interstate 93, as it does not meet current Interstate standards. It was constructed as a compromise between the park service and highway department, and as such it is mostly signed as U.S. 3 and "TO" Interstate 93 (with some exceptions). When originally constructed, the Franconia Notch Parkway carried its own exit numbers (1, 2, and 3) separate from mainline Interstate 93. However, this was changed in 2002; according to Jeffrey Moss, the exit numbers are now continuous with mainline Interstate 93. This change was made because the transition from the freeway to the parkway is nearly invisible to the motoring public (aside from brown guide signs and the narrowing of the freeway to two lanes), so it made more sense to keep the exit numbers consistent.

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wardsgirl said:

The road was definitely a narrow one! Does anyone remember when the present 'parkway' was built? I seem to remember driving on a gravel surface for awhile.

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I recall building the highway through Franconia Notch was highly controversial and it took quite a few years to get it off the ground. The AMC was quite involved with this process. It was a horror show driving through while it was being built. I was very concerned how the end product would be since I really liked the narrow road. Lafayette Campground actually had a wilderness feel to it until I-93 came through!

I think that, despite all the wrangling that went into the design process, and all the traffic pressures, that the end result was a good compromise. Yes, nobody wants a highway thru their favorite playground, but unless/until we change our preferred mode of transportation, roads have to be built somewhere and this one was done which preserved, as much as possible, the nature and character of the notch. Of those trails which had to be re-routed, perhaps Greenleaf is the one which suffered most, as the lower sections seems to slab along the contour for a rather long time until it begins to climb away from the highway.

RoySwkr said:

Not only are there defined parking lots rather than random roadside picnic tables, they are fewer and bigger.

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And farther from where some of the trails come out... (eg Liberty Spring)

As to trucks, I'm not sure that 93 increased traffic (how else do you get to North Country which is mostly in decline rather than growth mode) but it did improve traffic flow via more climbing lanes and less entering/turning traffic.

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My recollection is that one of the arguments for running 93 through the notch was that it was better for heavy trucking than the prior arrangement (which I thought required them to go around the notch).

The new road itself is certainly better for traffic than the old road.

Doug

DougPaul said:

My recollection is that one of the arguments for running 93 through the notch was that it was better for heavy trucking than the prior arrangement (which I thought required them to go around the notch)

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I seem to recall reading something that said it was either going to be Franconia Notch or Kinsman Notch; that to bank off early enough to go around the far side of Moosilauke and up to Franconia would have been far more unwieldy, and would have left Woodstock/Lincoln too isolated as well as being too close to I-91 to be worth it.

As one who remembers fishing on the Kanc when it was dirt, I also remember the amount of time it took us to GET to the pleasures of the lakes and mountains in those days.
I am happy that we are able to get to trailheads on good roads and get out there hiking all the sooner.

The center lane guardrail on the FN Parkway went up in the mid-1990s after there were a couple of fatal head-on collisions in the Notch, one involving a large family from Mass. (?) and the other a local man from Lincoln. The effort to have the guardrail barrier installed was spearheaded by a Littleton area attorney who strongly felt the Parkway, as originally built with no center barrier, was a major hazard, especially in winter when the Notch becomes a treacherous place due to the frequent ice and snow storms. While working for the Littleton newspaper at the time, I wrote numerous stories about this issue and covered several public meetings held at Cannon Mountain. I may be mistaken, but I think I was the first reporter to write about the attorney's concerns about the Parkway and inadvertently helped him gather local support for the barrier and persuade the state to erect the guardrails. Interestingly, there have been no fatal head-on crashes in the Notch since the guardrail barrier went up. There may have been one or two fatal car-moose collisions, but certainly no head-ons.

Kevin Rooney said:

Of those trails which had to be re-routed, perhaps Greenleaf is the one which suffered most, as the lower sections seems to slab along the contour for a rather long time until it begins to climb away from the highway.

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Skookumchuck has an even longer parallel section, not to mention Liberty Spring/Cascade Brook where you have to walk to the former trailhead. And then there's the middle trail to Mount Pemigewasset which was cut off by the highway and never reconnected.

All in all, the new road was not convenient for trails in the Notch, one of the first indications that the AMC was becoming hiker-unfriendly when they encouraged this to happen.