Stash
Active member
And a big frown when a family is out riding and only the kids have helmets. Something about setting a good example??
Musings on Head Injuries
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And a big frown when a family is out riding and only the kids have helmets. Something about setting a good example??
Little Rickie
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I consider it a good hike if I don't fall down. I'm cautious but don't worry about it. Heck, I slipped and fell on a trail of a local park last Sunday. Accidents happen. If I spent all my time worring about them I'd never leave the house.
I wear a helmet biking and wore a helmet cave exploring.
I've lost track of how many times I've bumped my head on blow down but that isn't a good enought reason for wearing a helmet hiking.
I wear a helmet biking and wore a helmet cave exploring.
I've lost track of how many times I've bumped my head on blow down but that isn't a good enought reason for wearing a helmet hiking.
buddy
New member
Friendly reminders
When hiking, esp. whacking at night, my posse is always reminding each other that we are old men without helmets. That way when one of us falls we can say, hey...why don't you listen to us, be careful!!!! I suppose we could just be more careful, couldn't we? Seriously though, we are very careful and we end up falling occassionally anyway, I think it's just par for the course. I concur with earlier posts in regard to how often we avoid serious injury due to pure luck. If I don't get hit by a car one of those pointy spikes left by a beaver will probably get me. Buddy
When hiking, esp. whacking at night, my posse is always reminding each other that we are old men without helmets. That way when one of us falls we can say, hey...why don't you listen to us, be careful!!!! I suppose we could just be more careful, couldn't we? Seriously though, we are very careful and we end up falling occassionally anyway, I think it's just par for the course. I concur with earlier posts in regard to how often we avoid serious injury due to pure luck. If I don't get hit by a car one of those pointy spikes left by a beaver will probably get me. Buddy
And a big frown when a family is out riding and only the kids have helmets. Something about setting a good example??
I think the attaboy
for the kids is not lost on the parents in this caseTim
daxs
Active member
I usually want to go and rip the parents for being idiots but I hold my tongue....
BorealChickadee
New member
I've always worn a helmet while biking.
Hiking, no.
Biking...wear your brain bucket. If you have a brain injury you won't be able to help yourself. If you're lucky you'll be able to thank God you're alive.
If this thread is still going in three weeks I'll let you know how the brain handles implanting trauma. In the meantime, wear your brain buckets.
Hiking, no.
Biking...wear your brain bucket. If you have a brain injury you won't be able to help yourself. If you're lucky you'll be able to thank God you're alive.
If this thread is still going in three weeks I'll let you know how the brain handles implanting trauma. In the meantime, wear your brain buckets.
Aviarome
Member
I think for high risk activities, a helmet is important. There has been epidemiologic studies that support the use of helmets while bike riding and rock climbing. "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" often cites the lack of head protection as a risk for injury.
I have not read much about Natasha Richardson, but it seems like it was a classic epidural hemorrhage (type of brain bleed) where after trauma, the patient loses conscience 1-2 hrs later. This happens more often than people would expect everyday. There are many people who present to the ED after slipping on ice, falling while ice skating, or falling off a ladder. Majority of the time, a medical intervention will save the patients' lives, but once in a while, the bleeding is too brisk, or caught too late.
In general, accidents happen, and you cannot plan for every scenario, but those activities that have a very high risk, such as biking or rock climbing, warrant the consideration of wearing head protection. However, I think there is minimal risk with hiking that a helmet isn't necessary.
Aviarome
I have not read much about Natasha Richardson, but it seems like it was a classic epidural hemorrhage (type of brain bleed) where after trauma, the patient loses conscience 1-2 hrs later. This happens more often than people would expect everyday. There are many people who present to the ED after slipping on ice, falling while ice skating, or falling off a ladder. Majority of the time, a medical intervention will save the patients' lives, but once in a while, the bleeding is too brisk, or caught too late.
In general, accidents happen, and you cannot plan for every scenario, but those activities that have a very high risk, such as biking or rock climbing, warrant the consideration of wearing head protection. However, I think there is minimal risk with hiking that a helmet isn't necessary.
Aviarome
Bob Kittredge
Active member
I've collected so many dings in my scalp from walking into low branches (usually on descent), that my trail name will be "Headbanger" if I ever hike the AT. My worry is that someday one of these incidents will lay open my scalp good and proper or injure an eye.
But as often as I've fallen, I've never come close to hitting my head on a rock, so I don't worry about being knocked unconscious.
No helmet for me, but if someone would invent a stiffer, more protective ball cap....
But as often as I've fallen, I've never come close to hitting my head on a rock, so I don't worry about being knocked unconscious.
No helmet for me, but if someone would invent a stiffer, more protective ball cap....
DougPaul
Well-known member
There have also been epidemiologic studies that found no reduction in injury rates when the use of bicycle helmets was mandated. Some data even indicates an increase in injury rates...
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/citation/332/7543/722-a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet
Doug
Maddy
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Darn...I don't even want to think of what my injury rate would been when my head hit that concrete wall had I opted to not wear my helmet because the temps were in the 90's.
And I know with certitude that it did not cause the accident.
Maybe I spent too many years in a trauma center caring care for severely brain injured and brain dead adults and children to take a study like this seriously.
One of our employees came in brain dead when his helmet cracked in half on impact and he sustained a horrific head injury.
I suppose one could say that the helmet didn't help him but I don't think I would choose to not wear one because he died wearing his.
I think I will continue to take my chances with the helmet on even if it costs me a small loss of peripheral vision.
It sure beats being an organ donor.
TrishandAlex
New member
I have NOT read the entire article (and I probably should before posting, but I don't have the time right now, so here goes anway...) BUT
I think the gist is that one is a bit less careful riding with a bike helmet, ever so subconciously so. Just enough to get the general helmeted populace into a wee bit more accidents than the no-helmet riders. Reasoning being...without a helmet, one may be more aware of the danger and more careful...since one knows one is not wearing a helmet. WITH a helmet, guard may be let down just a little bit...making the chance for an accident a bit higher.
Again, haven't yet read the actual studies, but I have heard folks discuss the reasoning behind the argument. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just putting the reasoning out there.
Rock climbing is different, of course..I'm just discussing bike riding.
I'm not sure I buy that. But I've only ridden 45,000 miles in the last 14 years, and only as a and with helmeted riders, so I can't say for sure.
Tim
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Maddy
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All I can say to this is I really hope that those who make a decision to bike in a reckless manner, helmet or no helmet, remember to sign their organ donor cards. There are a lot of folks out there who really want a chance at life.
daxs
Active member
I have never thought that wearing my helmet protected me to such a degree that could be careless. I think that getting hit my a car has made me exceedingly careful, even with a helmet on. I run along the roads around my house and I am constantly amazed at the number of drivers I see that are not paying any attention to the road and are careless; on cell phones, looking at the person next to them while talking, dealing the the kids in the back seat, eating, drinking, smoking, both hands off the wheel and my favorite, driving down the shoulder of the road.
DougPaul
Well-known member
DougPaul said:
Many people have trouble accepting the conclusions of these studies--the results certainly are counterintuitive. But the data says what the data says and if the studies were done properly they shouldn't be ignored.
A cracked helmet is dramatic, but actually has absorbed very little energy. If it didn't absorb the impact energy, it didn't protect the victim. (Helmets are designed to absorb impact energy by crushing, not cracking.)
One study in England showed that vehicles gave more clearance to a helmet-less rider than a helmeted rider. This alone could account for lower accident rates for helmetless riders.
The wikipedia article that I referenced has a fairly balanced overview of results on both sides of the issue. It is worth a full read if you are interested in the topic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet
Doug
woodsxc
New member
I don't think that wearing a helmet makes me reckless.
Also, helmet's don't prevent accidents, they prevent injuries. So the study isn't really saying anything earth shattering. Like Maddy, I'm gonna continue to try my luck and wear a helmet. Same goes for when I board.
Also, helmet's don't prevent accidents, they prevent injuries. So the study isn't really saying anything earth shattering. Like Maddy, I'm gonna continue to try my luck and wear a helmet. Same goes for when I board.
Stash
Active member
I've spent a lot of years riding a motorcycle and 13 years teaching motorcycle safety. You can apply a lot of the concepts to bike (and ski) helmets.
Surprisingly, many motorcycle safety professionals are against helmet laws. The reason is not that helmets don't help but that people, when forced to do something, will often do the minimum to meet the law (or a parent's ranting about wearing a helmet). This often results in people wearing old or makeshift equipment incorrectly. The more effective method (theoretically) is to get folks to understand how they work.
We've all seen people with really old bike helmets... Foam gets brittle with age and exposure to the elements. When it gets brittle it cracks instead of crushes.
We've all seen people (especially kids) riding with helmets either flopping around on their head or tilted way back on their head. The helmet won't protect as well if it's not in the proper position.
Key: Quality equipment that fits and is worn properly.
Surprisingly, many motorcycle safety professionals are against helmet laws. The reason is not that helmets don't help but that people, when forced to do something, will often do the minimum to meet the law (or a parent's ranting about wearing a helmet). This often results in people wearing old or makeshift equipment incorrectly. The more effective method (theoretically) is to get folks to understand how they work.
We've all seen people with really old bike helmets... Foam gets brittle with age and exposure to the elements. When it gets brittle it cracks instead of crushes.
We've all seen people (especially kids) riding with helmets either flopping around on their head or tilted way back on their head. The helmet won't protect as well if it's not in the proper position.
Key: Quality equipment that fits and is worn properly.
Paradox
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I cannot imagine wearing a helmet while hiking. However, I always wear a hat and glasses. All of my head injuries have been limited to digs in the head and face from headhunters on blowdowns. The hat and glasses reduce the damage considerably. That being said, wearing the helmet all the time on Rainier was really no bother at all.
TrishandAlex
New member
No one's claiming that wearing a helmet makes one reckless.
It's a subconscous thing -- a tiny fraction of an influence in one direction that can make the difference in collision vs. non-collision.
I think the argument is this: there can be a false sense of security in wearing a helmet, the rider (and the drivers around the rider) let down their guard just a bit, just enough to make a negative difference.
Again, I haven't analyzed the statistics myself, but I think the theory is interesting.
Trust me - wearing a helmet does not let my guard down even one tiny little bit. I'm glad I don't ride in the Boston area any longer - that bordered on insane. Drivers just don't care if they take out a cyclist - there is no other explanation for their behavior. Passing on blind corners where meeting another car head on means either a head-on collision or taking out Tim on his bike. Arguing with your spouse or kids on the cell phone, or making a tee time reservation or whatever instead of paying attention. It can be unnerving. This is especially true during commuting hours - which I try and do 2-3 times per week on my bike.
What's interesting to note is that the same blind curve in the AM people will barrel right past, and/or will lean on the horn if I ride in the center of the lane (until it is safe for them to pass). At night though if I am riding with lights, people are much more cautious.
Perhaps the most interesting observation of my 14 years as an avid recreational and racing cyclist is this -- Put a Burley trailer behind your bike and the same people who'd think nothing of running you into a ditch won't come within 10 feet because you've got a kid with you. I can't tell you how many people gave me crap for pulling my kids, but were offended when I told them they should "drive more carefully and share the road, please."
Cycling to work would have an enormous benefit to our society in terms of fossil fuel savings, CO2 emissions, and denting the obesity, diabetes, and other health care problems of America 2009. Not to mention you get some sun and apparently we're all grossly underdosed on vitamin-D due to our indoor lifestyle and #50 SPF sunscreen.
Note that I am not disagreeing with your statement (Trish) in the aggregate, especially the part about Joe or Jane Six-Pack's view of a cyclist. I went from a '75 Chevy Impala wagon to an '86 Honda Civic (the first two cars I ever drove) - people would NOT pull out in front of me in the Impala but hardly noticed the Civic - so they are making some judgment about their own a$$, if not mine or that of some other rider.
OK, off my soapbox now
Tim
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