$25,000 fine assessed for teen hiker

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I would find the Scott Mason case far less objectionable if NH law provided that all SAR (including corpse recovery) services will be billed to the hiker, his/her guardians, or estate. But it doesn’t.

First the NH law required the hiker’s actions to be “reckless” in order for the SAR services to be billed. Recently the law was changed to set the standard at “negligent,” which is far less stringent and considerably more nebulous than before.

There always has seemed to be allowance for considerable arbitrariness in who gets billed and how much, which should be troubling to everyone. Now we see – in the Scott Mason case and under the “negligence” standard -- the largest billing ever imposed for SAR by NH F&G, a billing that by all appearances has a substantial, but unspoken punitive component as well as an attempt to “recover costs.”

Right out front it is my opinion that the facts of the Mason case as I know them do not support a finding that Scott Mason and his parents were negligent to any degree justifying the unprecedented size of the fine they were assessed by the F&G agency. I find it difficult to believe they were negligent at all, unless it is determined that hiking in the White Mountains’ upper elevations during April is an inherently negligent act, in and of itself. I will stipulate, of course, that so far we only have heard or seen NH F&G’s side of the argument, as the Mason family and their attorney have chosen to remain mum in the face of negotiations toward settlement, or litigation in the matter of the negligence charges and fine.

More’s the pity in the latter situation, because it keeps the public – and especially hikers – from having in a timely manner what might be a very informative and worthwhile account of Scott Mason’s misadventure. But, alas, that’s part of the public price we pay as a result of legislative and government administrative silliness.

It has been argued above that we as a society have come to “expect” hiker and climber rescue services, thus lowering hikers’ sense of need for individual preparedness and self-reliance. I think this is a chicken-egg puzzle. Did public expectation for rescue arise from public demand, or was it subtly imposed on us through an increased level of government-imposed regimentation of hiking activity?

Of course, the chicken-egg type argument is moot, because however it got here we have before us today a very different situation than we had years ago, vis a vis SAR expectations. When I started more serious backcountry tripping 50 years ago, it never really occurred to me that I would become the focus of a SAR operation. That wasn’t hubris. I, and the people I went on trips with planned and prepared to deal with the challenges and contingencies we might face along the way, fully expecting to fend for ourselves and get out of the woods on our own if things went to Hell in a handcart, as a matter of necessity and not of choice.

I think we should remember one thing in discussing this particular case. The facts as now publicly known most strongly suggest Scott Mason represents the old school of hiker self reliance, and not the new school that relies on a cell phone to summon assistance in even minor incidents. To me, that puts NH F&G under the microscope here, to fully probe the agency’s rationale behind this outrageous fine (or fee assessment, if you want to call it that).

And it puts the State of NH on the spot to devise a law of clear purpose that will ensure equitable, fair and just responses to all situations.

G.
 
This reminds me of the NFL. No, seriously. In recent years they've been changing many of the rules of the game to remove the "judgement of the official" and simply be based on a few specific, evidential facts. This to reduce controversy and complaint about rulings during games, as well as make it precisely clear to the players what is and isn't allowed.

Many of the arguments in this thread point the same direction. There's this nebulous concept of "negligence" and too many unknowns involved. Many voices deride the use of judgement, allegedly poor in some cases, to decide if someone was in need of rescue due to negligence.

Well, unfortunately the flip side of the coin is a different story. Hiking isn't a game with rules like the NFL. Would you want to be fined because you were on Franconia Ridge, a hike you've done dozens of times and could do in your sleep, fully prepared, but slipped and broke your ankle, and were found to not have a map with you? And the law, in an effort to remove judgement, stipulated that you must have a map?

Standards are nice to have. They make rulings consistent. But removing that flexibility of judgement calls, in my opinion, would be a mistake. I'm not saying I agree with F&G's take on this case; however, we've already seen poor side-effects of "mandatory" clauses in laws, and I don't think we want that here.
 
Bingo!

PHP:
I'd be curious to understand the process to fight this. Will a jury of peers make the judgement? Will it be a judge? Will any of these people be mountain folk or flatlanders who haven't ventured into the Mountains (or) woods? Would people be able to properly understand whats negligent of a winter hiker if they never participated in winter hiking?
We have a winner. THIS is where the 'play' or wiggle room in the American jurisprudence system exists. Assuming a fair, competent judge and opposing lawyers of equal ability, the definition of 'negligence' comes down to the jurors in the box. And those people are pulled randomly from DL or voter registrations with a limited number of 'strikes' by each lawyer. Thus, negligence (what a reasonable person would do under the circumstances) can be defined very differently by different juries. While a 'gross recklessness' standard is still somewhat subjective, it is still a higher standard.
;)
 
...

Standards are nice to have. They make rulings consistent. But removing that flexibility of judgement calls, in my opinion, would be a mistake. I'm not saying I agree with F&G's take on this case; however, we've already seen poor side-effects of "mandatory" clauses in laws, and I don't think we want that here.

Case law recognizes and establishes that several degrees or kinds of negligence exist. So I would not argue against allowing within a law allowing fines or fees for SAR for administrative judgment in making “calls” as to the degree of negligence involved, upon which then would be based the amount of a cost recovery or fine assessment, according to a specified formula.

Nor would I necessarily object to such a law that presumes negligence of some degree in all incidents, meaning all incidents automatically would be subject to the assessment of a fine or cost recovery billing (or whatever you want to call it). However, I would strongly object to a law that did not specifically allow for means to contest the presumption of negligence or degree of negligence in any given case.

This would allow for case-by-case determinations and put a damper on arbitrariness.

G.
 
Hmmmm...

Standards are nice in theory, but when the rubber hits the road of a real live jury in a courtroom all bets are off. Take it from someone who has tried many cases; jurors bring their own subjecive sensibilities and nonsensibilities to their decisions. If the law is not absolutely black and white, they very often manipulate it to reach the end result they want. And a learned judge cannot legally overturn a jury verdict in a negligence case so long as the jury simply votes/decides that a party was or was not the 'proximate cause' (the key finding in every negligence ase) of an event... ;)
 
New Hampshire state motto, ammended to reflect newly implemented policy.

Live free
(but not so free as to do anything anyone considers risky, in fact, you should probably not take any risks at all, risk being vaguely defined by whatever the monday morning quarterbacks on a committee think. And don't even think of letting your kids take risks, keep them safely contained in front of a screen until of legal age)

or die
(because you didn't want to be made an arbitrary example of as a deterrent, and so didn't call for help in time, by which point your delay in calling for help will be considered neglegence, and your estate will be fined, or else die because you sat safely on a couch your whole life and had a heart attack from obesity and stress)

They might have trouble fitting that on a license plate.

I don't blame the rescuers for this, I doubt this was the decision of anyone on the rescue team. it's the laws that are flawed, and those who arbitrarily enforce them that should be ashamed of themselves. The idea that if we object to this policy we are somehow disrespecting the rescuers is absurd.

I know people who think stepping into the woods at all is a negligent risk. It worries me that some of them have the legal authority to fine me for twisting an ankle. In all likelyhood a jury will be filled with the same sedentary, risk averse, couch sitters.

"OMG, arnt their leik, bears an stuff in da woods? Wat if u fall and brake a leg, wat if u get mud on ur shoos or get lime diseese or westnyle or get bit bi a snake, or it snows, and we have to save U !?!?!"
 
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I don't blame the rescuers for this, I doubt this was the decision of anyone on the rescue team. it's the laws that are flawed, and those who arbitrarily enforce them that should be ashamed of themselves. The idea that if we object to this policy we are somehow disrespecting the rescuers is absurd.

There is indeed some truth in this. The law is flawed. We need to blame the State for setting such vaugaries in the law, not F&G. Whether we want to agree with it or not, the F&G department was given a set of rules to play by and they made that decision under the rules they were given. Were the fair in doing so? Well I guess that will be determined by this court case. Bottom line the State of New Hampshire (NOT F&G) need to do something MORE than simply changing "Negligent" to "reckless" (seriously, did they think that would actually solve any problems???) Even if it is as simple as making EVERYONE pay a portion of their rescue cost, negligent/reckless or not (I have to believe charging for a simple 1/4 or 1/8 of rescue costs would easily help the financial situation), instituting a small surcharge as Tim Seaver has suggested, or even being so bold as to sue the Federal Government to provide reimbursment for STATE services rendered on FEDERAL land (I think this last least likely since it could set some awfully bad precidents).

Brian
 
When I started more serious backcountry tripping 50 years ago, it never really occurred to me that I would become the focus of a SAR operation. That wasn’t hubris. I, and the people I went on trips with planned and prepared to deal with the challenges and contingencies we might face along the way, fully expecting to fend for ourselves and get out of the woods on our own if things went to Hell in a handcart, as a matter of necessity and not of choice.

Exactly! So, picking an arbitrary starting point, like the Lewis & Clark expedition, until you began "serious backcountry tripping", about 150 years passed. And, in those 150 years people prepared for survival. It appears over the past 50 years things began to change and progress to the point of our discussion.

I think we should remember one thing in discussing this particular case. The facts as now publicly known most strongly suggest Scott Mason represents the old school of hiker self reliance, and not the new school that relies on a cell phone to summon assistance in even minor incidents.

Mr. Mason may indeed represent the old school hiker of self reliance. His parents do not. They asked for the assistance.
 
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... I know people who think stepping into the woods at all is a negligent risk. It worries me that some of them have the legal authority to fine me for twisting an ankle. In all likelyhood a jury will be filled with the same sedentary, risk averse, couch sitters.

"OMG, arnt their leik, bears an stuff in da woods? Wat if u fall and brake a leg, wat if u get mud on ur shoos or get lime diseese or westnyle or get bit bi a snake, or it snows, and we have to save U !?!?!"

I think you underestimate the intelligence or activity of those who do not hike. Either that or you know some weird people. This only shows me that this thread is starting to deteriorate.

I think this started as a discussion of the amount of the fine and naturally evolved into a reasonable and interesting discussion of the degree of negligence. The issue of paying for searches and rescues in the first place has been discussed before and also occasionally creeps into this discussion. Now we get into the personalities of anyone who might be making determinations of the fine or the negligence and the possibility that someone might view it differently than "us". Grow up! That's life and there is not one among "us" who gets to make the rules for everyone else ...

... 'cept maybe me ... :rolleyes:
 
OK, so despite going out of my way to specifically defend F&G rescue crews in my post, people still think I'm attacking F&G. I simply question whether the people doing the rescuing are the same ones making these decisions on who to fine. Since the process is totally opaque, we'll never know.

yes, I do know some weird people. And some who know me think I'm weird. And some who know you may think you're weird. Unless you surround yourself with people exactly like you. never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
 
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...
Mr. Mason may indeed represent the old school hiker of self reliance. His parents do not. They asked for the assistance.

I don’t know about that. From what I have read, Scott Mason’s parents (mother) contacted “the authorities” on Saturday evening to report that Scott was overdue on ending his hike. Is that a thoughtless or essentially causeless plea for help or a reasonable and prudent action on the part of a responsible parent (or other contact person) in this or any other day and age?

A primary issue raised by Scott Mason’s case seems to be, “what constitutes hiker negligence?” It is a long – very, very long – stretch to construe the call by his parent as evidence of “hiker negligence.”

And, although you could call it quibbling, this is not conjecture: It is fair to say that once contacted, the government authorities are in control of what ensues in respect to the SAR effort. Thus, no decision to conduct a search was made by the parents; that decision actually was initiated by the authorities they contacted.

In reality, what you have in Scott Mason’s case is the old school values and expectations of self reliance colliding and melding with the current public ethos that calls for early notifications and significant quick response to a “missing person” report. Facts of this incident as we know them so far clearly tell us the the connection is tenuous between Scott Mason and hikers who rely on their cell phones as essential "survival" gear or rangers to walk them home when night falls. (And please note that more and more of "the authorities" are saying that cell phones belong in hikers' kits of essential items.)

G.
 
Whether we want to agree with it or not, the F&G department was given a set of rules to play by and they made that decision under the rules they were given.
I was under the impression, from PR and news coverage at the time of the new law, that F&G supported the change in the standard from reckless to negligent.
even being so bold as to sue the Federal Government to provide reimbursment for STATE services rendered on FEDERAL land
F&G has rescue authority throughout the state on the basis of NH law, do they not? I can't see the state of NH suing the feds over a NH law. To make it the FS's responsibility, they'd first have to delegate that authority to the FS (as they do in the Cutler River drainage during winter).
 
I wasn't going to add any more to this, but I found a hint of the definition of negligence. This is from a post on the Mountain Sage Blog.

“Yes, he’d been out there in July when you could step across the brooks. And people have been out there in winter in hard-packed snow. But with these spring conditions, it was soft snow, it was deep snow,” said Fish and Game Maj. Tim Acerno.

Mason, 17, of Halifax, Mass., had planned to spend one day hiking 17 miles in the New Hampshire mountains but ended up lost after he hurt his ankle and decided to take a shortcut. The shortcut led him into rising water and deep snow caused by unseasonably warm weather.

Mason was negligent in continuing up the mountain with an injury and veering off the marked path, Acerno said. Negligence, he said, is based on judging what a reasonable person would do in the same situation.

So is the determination based on a reasonable experienced hiker, or a reasonable inexperinced non-hiker? It would be helpful to know.

I'm going for a long walk!
 
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I don’t know about that. From what I have read, Scott Mason’s parents (mother) contacted “the authorities” on Saturday evening to report that Scott was overdue on ending his hike. Is that a thoughtless or essentially causeless plea for help or a reasonable and prudent action on the part of a responsible parent (or other contact person) in this or any other day and age?

I agree with much of the premise of your above post. Regarding Mr. Mason being overdue on ending his hike, I believe his trip plan may be part of this problem. I understand that leaving a trip plan is perceived as a responsible action. Once Mr. Mason diverted from his plan (took his shortcut) it became useless; nothing more than an estimate of where he had been or was headed. The plan was moot.

And, although you could call it quibbling, this is not conjecture: It is fair to say that once contacted, the government authorities are in control of what ensues in respect to the SAR effort. Thus, no decision to conduct a search was made by the parents; that decision actually was initiated by the authorities they contacted.

There was a decision to conduct a search made by his parents. They chose not to look for him themselves. Be it lack of gear, experience, etc. they had his trip plan and knew the planned route and they chose to pass the responsibility to professionals. I have absolutely no problem with this. SAR teams know what they are doing. However, negligent or not, there is a cost.
 
I agree with much of the premise of your above post. Regarding Mr. Mason being overdue on ending his hike, I believe his trip plan may be part of this problem. I understand that leaving a trip plan is perceived as a responsible action. Once Mr. Mason diverted from his plan (took his shortcut) it became useless; nothing more than an estimate of where he had been or was headed. The plan was moot.

I would say the trip plan in fact anything but useless - it gave his parents a general idea of when he'd be down, and a general idea of where he'd be in the mean time. When he didn't contact them within the specified time frame it alerted them to a potential problem, and gave the SAR folks an idea of where to start looking.

I'd say that's a very responsible action so long as it's not one's ONLY backup plan - and in Mason's case it clearly wasn't.

However, negligent or not, there is a cost.

Not according to New Hampshire law. If cost applied "negligence or not" we wouldn't be over 300 posts.
 
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