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Thread: Pemi Wilderness Bridge Removal Project

  1. #76
    Senior Member kltilton's Avatar
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    Peter, you make a very good point. But a lot of people on this board believe that the decision to remove the bridge was a foregone conclusion. I believe that it is more than a coincidence that the bridge is "unsafe" (but still open to use as of earlier this summer) when it is about 49.5 years old, similar to the Desolation Shelter. It seems the FS is asking for public commment to make sure they are following the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by psmart View Post
    The FS did a good job of making a difficult decision. Remember that the bridge had become unsafe, so doing nothing was not an option. They had to choose between removal and repair, each with it's own drawbacks.

    For the detractors, I would ask: How many government agencies actually ask for your opinion about a project, and then respond to it directly in their decision? Even when we don't like the decision, we should be grateful for this level of participation in an administrative process. Would we rather that the FS made these decisions with no public input?

  2. #77
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Apparently there are no formal appeal rights to this decision but I sent a comment to the Regional Forester asking that it be overturned. I will write to Senator Gregg next.

    I invite others pro & con to do the same.

    http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/contact/

  3. #78
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    I think I will go do the East Side Trail and Cedar Brook, and find a way across the river and go back on the other side. Should be an adventure--something appropriate for a wilderness area.

  4. #79
    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
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    Kevin, I'm sorry you misread my post. I was not responding to Dr. Wu. I was responding to Smitty, as I stated. Smitty referred to the stewards of the area needing "...to be replaced with some that have a brain and use it rationally." That is the statement I equated with "calling people stupid."

    However, I did go back and re-read Dr. Wu's post, at your suggestion. He referred to the people involved as "mindless." You can decide whether or not that that is a reasonable synonym for "stupid."

    My point was exactly the same as yours (we are "violently agreeing"). The decision is bad, the people are just people.

    TCD

  5. #80
    Senior Member ferrisjrf's Avatar
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    imagine if...

    What about chaining ourselves to the bridge? If we can last through the winter, then the bridge will be 50 years old. It seems like it might be our last chance to save her.

    Jason

  6. #81
    Member peakbagger-paul's Avatar
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    I'm confused about the status of the bridge right now. Is it closed, or is it open until they start removing it? I was planning on hiking up the Signal Ridge Trail Carrigain tomorrow, going down the Desolation Trail and over to Stillwater Junction, and then hiking the entire length of the Wilderness/Lincoln Woods Trail back to Lincoln Woods. Is this still possible or am I too late?

  7. #82
    Senior Member smitty77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCD View Post
    Kevin, I'm sorry you misread my post. I was not responding to Dr. Wu. I was responding to Smitty, as I stated. Smitty referred to the stewards of the area needing "...to be replaced with some that have a brain and use it rationally." That is the statement I equated with "calling people stupid."
    And do take note, that was a comment regarding wilderness management principles other than the removal of the bridge which is a project I don't agree with but can see the other side of the argument.

    To have a Ranger repeatedly hike 18 miles round-trip to remove a small, relatively unobtrusive sign from the summit of Owls Head, and remove a trail marker made of natural materials (rocks), and then to erect two signs, with sign posts, in another area of the Wilderness just baffles me and IMO crosses the line into "stupid". Would it not be a wiser decision to erect such signs at the Wilderness boundaries, where they do not violate the current management philosophy?

    To refresh your memory:http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31308
    East bound and down, loaded up and truckin', we gonna do what 'They' say can't be done.
    We gotta long way to go, and a short time to get there, I'm east bound just watch ole' Bandit run. - Jerry Reed

  8. #83
    Senior Member SteveHiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty77 View Post
    And do take note, that was a comment regarding wilderness management principles other than the removal of the bridge which is a project I don't agree with but can see the other side of the argument.

    To have a Ranger repeatedly hike 18 miles round-trip to remove a small, relatively unobtrusive sign from the summit of Owls Head, and remove a trail marker made of natural materials (rocks), and then to erect two signs, with sign posts, in another area of the Wilderness just baffles me and IMO crosses the line into "stupid". Would it not be a wiser decision to erect such signs at the Wilderness boundaries, where they do not violate the current management philosophy?

    To refresh your memory:http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31308
    FWIW, the signs that are 200 feet apart are not in the Wilderness.

  9. #84
    Senior Member smitty77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHiker View Post
    FWIW, the signs that are 200 feet apart are not in the Wilderness.
    Then I stand corrected. I wrongly assumed from the thread they were placed within the wilderness. Should have carefully noted the "western boundary" reference. My apologies.
    East bound and down, loaded up and truckin', we gonna do what 'They' say can't be done.
    We gotta long way to go, and a short time to get there, I'm east bound just watch ole' Bandit run. - Jerry Reed

  10. #85
    Senior Member psmart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrisjrf View Post
    What about chaining ourselves to the bridge? If we can last through the winter, then the bridge will be 50 years old. It seems like it might be our last chance to save her.

    Jason
    50-year age does not equate to historic status - it just requires an evaluation of historic status, which the FS and State of NH did anyway. So waiting another year would not have made any difference in this regard.

    And even if the bridge had been deemed to be of historic significance, that would not necessarily mandate retention or preservation. Historic structures (such as the 100 year-old WODC shelters) can still be removed under certain circumstances. But that's another thread. Suffice to say that the 50-year mark is not a magic point that would have saved the bridge. This is a myth.
    Last edited by psmart; 09-16-2009 at 12:57 PM.

  11. #86
    Senior Member ferrisjrf's Avatar
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    Well, I still think it's worth a shot. ;-)

    Worst case scenario, I should be in a great position to witness Wu come floating by, all slimed up with Barge glue and bacon grease.

    Jason

  12. #87
    Senior Member giggy's Avatar
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    should make a big party out of it - light the fcker up with fuel - bring a few barrells of suds in, portable weber grill, good loud portable sound system and party all night... at the end of the day - destroying things is quite fun - and even more when your half in the bag.

    thats my version of the "pemi bridge removal project"

  13. #88
    Senior Member kltilton's Avatar
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    Just make sure you limit your group to 10 people or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by giggy View Post
    should make a big party out of it - light the fcker up with fuel - bring a few barrells of suds in, portable weber grill, good loud portable sound system and party all night... at the end of the day - destroying things is quite fun - and even more when your half in the bag.

    thats my version of the "pemi bridge removal project"

  14. #89
    Senior Member erugs's Avatar
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    How many individual groups of ten can there be?
    Ellen

    Volunteer Maintainer: East Pond Trail

    "Through winter-time we call on spring/And through the spring on summer call/And when abounding hedges ring/Declare that winter's best of all/And after that there's nothing good/Because the spring-time has not come... William Butler Yeats

  15. #90
    Senior Member --M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoySwkr View Post
    Apparently there are no formal appeal rights to this decision but I sent a comment to the Regional Forester asking that it be overturned. I will write to Senator Gregg next.

    I invite others pro & con to do the same.

    http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/contact/
    This seems to be the most relevant point to future action: the only thing that will prevent the FS from acting is an injunction prompted by political pressure from the powerful. This is exactly the kind of thing one appeals to one's Congress-people for. Ted Kennedy's eulogies come to mind, but Senators Kerry, Snow, Gregg and others are more in a position to do something about it now.

    If you want removal delayed for review, request an injunction-type action from your elected representatives.

    I supported repair over removal, and will ask my Representative and Senator to help out.

    --Mike

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