Interesting Situation at Baxter: Car Boot

so, a few of us saw a car with a booted tire in baxter that was in a no parking zone...at or near a trailhead

I thought this was odd and maybe a bit overkill. Ticket - sure, but a boot?

what would have happened inf that person needed the car in an emergency and couldn't drive it away?

Don't get me wrong, I love baxter and they do 90% of the things right in that park IMO making it the best in the northeast IMO, but the more I go there, somethings just perplex me...

wondering thoughts on this? seemed overkill to me

Agreed. Seems extreme, especially for such a remote area.

Define emergency? A true emergency would be handled by SAR, an EMT/Paramedics, etc, which probably wouldn't require the person to drive (even if he/she was able to).

If one has to make a beer/ice cream run right now and your car is booted, well...

Jay

Perhaps this is a frequent violator and they've already tried other options? Budget cuts.. boot is probably cheaper than tow? Many possible reasons that one can agree or disagree with once the reason is known.

I guess it could be a local with a bunch of outstanding tickets, no inspection- registration or something. I'm not up on their local laws. Was it near a ranger station? In a way I guess you can always say, "what if an emergency" for any booted car that isn't next to a phone. Getting to be less and less pay phones out there and not everyone has a cell.

Here in Albany, NY they changed the law not to long ago. It was that you didn't get a boot until after 10 tickets. Then they dropped it to after 2 tickets. That's dramatic, that means after your first ticket when you get your 2nd they boot you. When it first went into affect every street must of had a half dozen per block.

Jay H said:

If one has to make a beer/ice cream run right now and your car is booted, well...

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I like how you used a " / " instead of the word "or". I think I'll go make a beer/ice cream/pizza run right now.

Anybody else here read the Waterman's books? I forget which one it was, but in either Backcountry Ethics or Wilderness Ethics, they used Baxter State Park as an example of management that was so intrusive and over the top that it negatively affected the quality of visitor experiences.

That's pretty harsh...but ultimately it's the fault of the person parking there. The rangers probably figure that a ticket wouldn't do much to stop the person from doing this again, because how enforceable is a ticket? I don't even know if they can issue tickets in the park...just assuming.

But I agree that management in that park can be a bit intrusive. Being told at the gate that we couldn't hike Katahdin last Saturday because there were "too many people on the mountain already" seemed a little over the top.

But in general, it seems like if you can just follow the rules and avoid doing anything stupid, you'll get along fine in the park.

for clarification, it was near a trailhead and there are no phones, etc.. near. Cell phone coverage in my expereince is next to none. Just thinking if a medical emergency in which the person could get to the car, but really needed to get out of dodge ASAP - waiting for the boot to come off, could be a buzzkill.

I don't know the history of the car, etc.. who knows, just thought it odd - they will close trails for safety, but boot a car.. The car owner was in the wrong - no doubt but.....

Coming back to a booted car sure beats coming back to a towed car.

BobC said:

But I agree that management in that park can be a bit intrusive. Being told at the gate that we couldn't hike Katahdin last Saturday because there were "too many people on the mountain already" seemed a little over the top.

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Look at Washingon on a nice summer day. Wouldn't you like to see a limit? From a management perspective they also have to keep wear/tear and the ability to provide safety services as a factor.

Way back when I used to downhill ski Vermont areas didn't limit number of skiers on the mountain. Most NH areas did. The experience in NH was better for the skiers.

StashZdanuk said:

Look at Washingon on a nice summer day. Wouldn't you like to see a limit? From a management perspective they also have to keep wear/tear and the ability to provide safety services as a factor.

Way back when I used to downhill ski Vermont areas didn't limit number of skiers on the mountain. Most NH areas did. The experience in NH was better for the skiers.

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This is a slippery slope kind of issue. Let's re-phrase things a bit. Would I like to see less people on a Washington hike on a nice summer day? Yes. Would I like to see limits imposed to accomplish this? No. Once they start doing that, what's next? Cars getting booted at PNVC?

That being said, I do see the difference between BSP and Washington. It can be a zoo on Washington, and since they limit hikers on Katahdin, you wouldn't get into that situation. I guess I don't mind if they limit the number of hikers on Katahdin. I just mind when they limit me.

Seriously though...when this happened to us we did not complain or argue. We politely asked the ranger about our other options, and ended up doing a different hike.

StashZdanuk said:

Way back when I used to downhill ski Vermont areas didn't limit number of skiers on the mountain. Most NH areas did. The experience in NH was better for the skiers.

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It's not the experience of the people getting in that ever seems to be the issue, it's the people getting told better luck next time. If Baxter only let me in I'd be singing about it, but I don't think everyone else would.

BobC said:

Once they start doing that, what's next? Cars getting booted at PNVC?

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Given some of the parking done alongside I-93 in Franconia Notch on nice holiday weekends, it wouldn't be a bad idea. I mean, really, parking on the fringe of an interstate highway just to hike? It's very generous of the state to look the other way in the name of tourism, but we should remember they don't have to nor should we expect them to.

Not to mention that we already have a similar situation in that in the winter throughout the Whites, if you're not in the parking area and off the main road, you will be tagged and/or towed.

giggy said:

I don't know the history of the car, etc.. who knows, just thought it odd - they will close trails for safety, but boot a car.. The car owner was in the wrong - no doubt but.....

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Mass plates may explain it?...

ColdRiverRun said:

It's not the experience of the people getting in that ever seems to be the issue, it's the people getting told better luck next time. If Baxter only let me in I'd be singing about it, but I don't think everyone else would.

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Unfortunately that's the issue with popular places in general. Without these limits you might might have a much worse experience when you got in. Many places out west have limits and reservation systems. Some places have limits with no reservation systems. It works that way for many things.. movies, restaurants, Guyot camp site. All for some sort of reason... that allows them to continue to be available tomorrow.

giggy said:

...what would have happened inf that person needed the car in an emergency and couldn't drive it away? ...

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Well if his thumb was not broken they could call for a chopper.

Craig said:

Mass plates may explain it?...

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It really might. I'd say the chances are good that they got tired of handing out tickets to just not get paid. I'd imagine quite a few people will say whatever to the ticket, "It's not like I'm coming back anytime soon or if ever" and since the DMV's aren't connected nothing happens to my license so who cares. It only becomes an issue for that person if they go back to Maine and then get into some other instance where their info is run. Some visit Baxter quite frequently but a higher majority may go only once or a handful of times.

This actually can be used as an example with Albany and it's tickets like I mentioned before. We have something like the 5th highest population of college students for an area in the entire country. So take for example when they graduate many just leave the area and don't return leaving massive numbers of unpaid tickets. The city got sick of it and decided to try and enforce it this way. It also makes a good excuse so they can get everyone but point to problem.

They weren't able to solve the garbage issue the same way. Students would just move out and leave everything and I mean everything out on the curbs. The city had to just either leave it or start forking out cash to have it all removed. Wasn't really an option so we have totally free pickup of anything you put out. You can leave a washer and dryer on top of a couch and it will be gone within the week.

I think you are looking at this wrong....

It was stated what if the person had an emergency and needed to drive away, and he/she was booted.

Or we can look at it as...What if the no parking zone is for emergency vechicles for when there is an emergency on the mountain...

This person could have gotten up 20 minutes earlier and parked in a regular spot.

Yes it is overkill, but I bet most people getting a Baxter State Park parking ticket use the ticket as a napkin. So this way the ticket gets paid, and it as a deterrent for others who see it.

I don't mind the etiquette police sticking it to people who value 20 minutes of extra sleep over possible safety of others on the trails.

So yes way overkill.....And the park should put on the no parking signs about how you "will possibly be booted"......But too bad.

Especially if it was a Massachusetts plate or JayH.

I am also a member (kind of) of another more global climbing forum...I constantly hear/read complaints of how horrible some of the more touristy trails are: Toilet paper all over, wrappers, so worn down its horrible, etc. I can quite easily deal with the regulations at Baxter as long as it is for the reward that come from HIKING that area: clean, well-maintained trails and camping areas and georgeous, uncrowded summits.

Heck, I live 3 hrs from ANY place worth hiking and have, on many occasion, gotten up at 3:00 am so as to find a parking space and start climbing at 6:30 or 7:00 am. I just consider it part of the whole experience...