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Thread: White Mountain Parking Fee Changes for 2010

  1. #1
    Senior Member yvon's Avatar
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    White Mountain Parking Fee Changes for 2010

    The proposed fee changes are to take effect January 1, 2010.

    The proposed fee for 2010

    Take this from http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/s...referrerid=142
    Yvon Daigle ADK 46/46--NH48/48--NE67/67--NORTHEAST 111 115/115--52/52 With A View

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  2. #2
    Senior Member MichaelJ's Avatar
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    Regrettably, this is old news. "Comments must be received by August 1, 2009."

    I neither like the idea of a fee and reservation process for the Cabot Cabin (you'll never have mixed company up there, it will likely be empty most of the time), nor do see why all the campsites on Gale River Rd, Haystack Rd, and Cherry Mountain Rd should be free.
    May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

  3. #3
    Senior Member TEO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
    nor do see why all the campsites on Gale River Rd, Haystack Rd, and Cherry Mountain Rd should be free.
    The WMNF is merely falling into compliance with the FLREA for those sites. As I've pointed out before, it is illegal to charge fees for those sites & similar, as they do not have the minimum required amenities. Still, the list remains too short, and the fee program immoral.

  4. #4
    Senior Member TDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
    nor do see why all the campsites on Gale River Rd, Haystack Rd, and Cherry Mountain Rd should be free.
    Is there a presently a charge for the Tripoli Rd. sites? If so, why not make those free too?

  5. #5
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    This is the request for comments, not the implementation order. Was it approved in exactly this form?

    Quote Originally Posted by TDawg View Post
    Is there a presently a charge for the Tripoli Rd. sites? If so, why not make those free too?
    They are cheap midweek, and expensive weekends.

    Because they provide amenities such as outhouses and dumpsters.

  6. #6
    Senior Member yvon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoySwkr View Post
    This is the request for comments, not the implementation order. Was it approved in exactly this form?
    I would like to know that also.
    Yvon Daigle ADK 46/46--NH48/48--NE67/67--NORTHEAST 111 115/115--52/52 With A View

    Les randonnées de Annie et Yvon (Website)
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  7. #7
    Banned Kevin Rooney's Avatar
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    Bridge removal doesn't come cheaply.

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    Senior Member The Hikers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Rooney View Post
    Bridge removal doesn't come cheaply.
    Nor does cannister removal

  9. #9
    Senior Member TDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoySwkr View Post
    Because they provide amenities such as outhouses and dumpsters.
    Where are those, Russell Pond and Osceola Vista? So you gotta drive to there to go #2? All the sites I've seen on Tripoli are lucky to have a fire ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Rooney View Post
    Bridge removal doesn't come cheaply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barkingcat View Post
    ...and signage from Owls Head...?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Hikers View Post
    Nor does cannister removal
    Or brand new LEED certified headquarters!! Yay, for big brother!!
    Last edited by TDawg; 12-04-2009 at 12:05 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDawg View Post
    Where are those, Russell Pond and Osceola Vista? So you gotta drive to there to go #2? All the sites I've seen on Tripoli are lucky to have a fire ring.
    There were several scattered porta-potties and a huge cluster of dumpsters between the contact station and the notch when I last drove Tripoli Road in July.

  11. #11
    Senior Member forestgnome's Avatar
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    As with most collectivist endevours, the results mostly suck for most.

    One person's "improvements" are another's assault on the environment.

    The path to Sabaday Falls has been "improved" with fee revenues. I would never choose these "improvements", yet I'm forced to help finance them.

  12. #12
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/f...text.shtml#two, Section 3(f) RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY.

    (f) Standard Amenity Recreation Fee.--Except as limited by subsection (d), the Secretary may charge a standard amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management, the Bureau of Reclamation, or the Forest Service, but only at the following:

    (4) An area--

    (A) that provides significant opportunities for outdoor recreation;

    (B) that has substantial Federal investments;

    (C) where fees can be efficiently collected; and

    (D) that contains all of the following amenities:

    (i) Designated developed parking.

    (ii) A permanent toilet facility.

    (iii) A permanent trash receptacle.

    (iv) Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk.

    (v) Picnic tables.

    (vi) Security services.
    How many fee-parking areas contain all six of the required elements? No toilet facility, perm or temp, at 19MBT for example. I don't recall one at the Hancock / hairpin lot either. Offhand, pretty much only Lincoln Woods and Mt. Clinton qualify... although I don't know about "security services" and they may or may not have picnic tables.

    I agree with Forest Gnome.

    Tim
    Last edited by bikehikeskifish; 12-05-2009 at 09:02 AM.
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  13. #13
    Senior Member arghman's Avatar
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    Tim: thanks for posting. I don't remember seeing picnic tables at the fee trailheads.
    --Jason
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  14. #14
    Senior Member --M.'s Avatar
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    I have generally subscribed to the idea of paying my three bucks toward a non-bushwhacked hike (parking area, occasional toilet, less-than-onerous fee, why not help pay one's way?).

    The trend lately (higher fees for fewer services), however, has me reconsidering. Haven't made up my mind yet, but here's a question:

    Is non-payment prosecuted in any way? Is it possible to use these areas and not get dinged for it? Enforcement (ticketing, towing, big yellow boot on the wheel) adds expense and hassle, but an empty fee tube in a lot full of cars sends a tidy political message.

    I know there are several participants here who have claimed over the years that they don't pay the fees as a political message. If I felt that the government was moving in a direction I didn't approve, I might consider usage without fee-payment as a method of protest, to say nothing of saving my five bucks for other use. Having to endure a collection process, however, would impact my convenience and would cost The People money, thereby muddying the message.

    Can those who regularly refuse to pay speak to this?

    --Mike.

  15. #15
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    How can they legally charge when the law clearly says they must have all 6 amenities? And what is the deal with security? I mean 19MBT has a high reported breakin rate, no picnic tables, no restroom. I don't know about trash... but at best they are at 50% compliance... I wonder if they don't protest for fear of a court challenge?

    I just buy a pass so I don't have to think about it.

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

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