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Thread: White Mountain Parking Fee Changes for 2010

  1. #16
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    How can they legally charge when the law clearly says they must have all 6 amenities? And what is the deal with security? I mean 19MBT has a high reported breakin rate, no picnic tables, no restroom. I don't know about trash... but at best they are at 50% compliance... I wonder if they don't protest for fear of a court challenge?

    I just buy a pass so I don't have to think about it.

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  2. #17
    Junior Member alpino's Avatar
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    I don't mind paying a parking fee if it helps defray the cost of maintanence, even if I don't always agree with certain specific projects. But $30 to stay at Cabot Cabin seems a bit excessive. I don't know who maintains other facilities, but I believe the Boy Scouts from Jefferson, NH maintain Cabot Cabin. So why should the Forest Service get $30/night? For that price I hope they have at least taken care of the mice in the ceiling.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    So apparently parking in Franconia & C-Notch these past two months when my past was expired is a good thing. I'll pick up my annual pass in the next couple of weeks at $20. and it will be good until 12/2010. I wish I could say I planned it that way but it was luck.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  4. #19
    Senior Member MichaelJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    So apparently parking in Franconia & C-Notch these past two months when my past was expired is a good thing.
    Depending on where exactly you were. Both notches have state parks encompassing many of the parking areas, which most definitely do not ever require USFS parking stickers.
    May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

  5. #20
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJ View Post
    Depending on where exactly you were. Both notches have state parks encompassing many of the parking areas, which most definitely do not ever require USFS parking stickers.
    My last pass expired in October so I wa sin the free lots. The next hike should be in a pay lot. (likely Cabot)
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  6. #21
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    How many fee-parking areas contain all six of the required elements? No toilet facility, perm or temp, at 19MBT for example.
    In my comments on this proposal, I specifically said 19MB should be removed from the list due to lack of amenities.

    I have a WMNF press release saying that fees would be removed from Kinsman Notch and Hancock Overlook, but they weren't. On the other hand, they added an outhouse and trashcan at Kinsman Notch.

    While I try not to pay as a political statement, this means not parking at fee areas and walking such as from a pulloff .3 miles below Hancock Overlook. I pay if I park at a fee lot, except for cases like Gale River last month when the fee slot was taped over. The FS occasionally places "Invitation to Pay" envelopes when people in lots don't pay, but I'm not sure if they prosecute scofflaws in WMNF like they do elsewhere.

  7. #22
    Senior Member NewHampshire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoySwkr View Post
    The FS occasionally places "Invitation to Pay" envelopes when people in lots don't pay, but I'm not sure if they prosecute scofflaws in WMNF like they do elsewhere.
    Well, not anymore. At least not at Lincoln Woods. My buddy Salty and I, along with a group of others, parked at Lincoln Woods. Salty did not realiz it was a pay area (there are no prominent signs stating so and it had been about 20 years since he had been in this lot....well actually this lots previous incarnation.) Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee) He agrees it was his fault for not knowing it was a pay area (by which the USFS did not help by more prominently displaying it was) and would gladly have paid the $3. But this is just rediculous.

    Brian
    Adopter: Wildcat Ridge Trail from Rt.16 to Wildcat "D". If you have any issues please contact me!

  8. #23
    Senior Member Ed'n Lauky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/f...text.shtml#two, Section 3(f) RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY. How many fee-parking areas contain all six of the required elements? No toilet facility, perm or temp, at 19MBT for example. I don't recall one at the Hancock / hairpin lot either. Offhand, pretty much only Lincoln Woods and Mt. Clinton qualify... although I don't know about "security services" and they may or may not have picnic tables. I agree with Forest Gnome. Tim
    I could care less about most of those amenities, but I sure would love to see a few more restrooms at the trailheads.

    Brian[/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    My last pass expired in October so I wa sin the free lots. The next hike should be in a pay lot. (likely Cabot)
    I can't remember for sure for the Bunnell trailhead, but the Mt. Cabot parking is free. Although if you use it you might get shot by someone instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshire View Post
    Well, not anymore. At least not at Lincoln Woods. My buddy Salty and I, along with a group of others, parked at Lincoln Woods. Salty did not realiz it was a pay area (there are no prominent signs stating so and it had been about 20 years since he had been in this lot....well actually this lots previous incarnation.) Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee) He agrees it was his fault for not knowing it was a pay area (by which the USFS did not help by more prominently displaying it was) and would gladly have paid the $3. But this is just rediculous.
    This one is curious. A few years ago I parked at the winter Garfield trailhead and it snowed that day. For that reason the ranger did not see my pass on the dashboard of the car. However, I only received a warning to pay or I would be fined. I sent in a photocopy of my pass and it all worked out.
    Last edited by Ed'n Lauky; 02-16-2010 at 09:45 AM.
    I used to look at my dog and think 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what your were thinking', and he'd look at me like he was saying 'If you were a little smarter I wouldn't have to'. Fred Jungclaus

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  9. #24
    Senior Member hikes-with-him's Avatar
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    still increase?

    Just went to the site to get the application to get my pass for 2010...

    We usually do the mail order as we live so far away...

    The mail pass still states it's $25 for the "household annual" pass.

    Did they decide to NOT increase? (hit the "mail order" link in what I've pasted below)

    http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/passes/
    It's never too late to discover who you really are

  10. #25
    Member averagejoe's Avatar
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    Funny, I just went to the Forest Service website to look at the prices myself and was surprised to see the rates had not changed. I always thought of the "send us your comments" forms as a way for big brother to get a feel for how many people they were going to tick off. I didn't think that there would be enough opposition to the fee hikes to sway the policy makers.

    That being said, I don't mind paying a use fee as long as it goes to useful projects. I know everyones idea of useful is different & I don't agree with everything the Forest Service does with my money. It seems to me (and I could be way off) that the fees are in place because our Federal, State & Local Governments have been steadily cutting funding to Public Lands.

    I'm just glad I don't have to pay a higher rate because I live out of state. I pay more for a 5 or 7 day out of state fishing or hunting license (never mind the yearly license) than I do for a year long White Mountain Family Pass. Anyone who hunts and/or fishes in N.H., VT and ME and doesn't live there knows about this.

    Has anyone considered a letter/e-mail writing campaign or a petition to tell the Forest service what users want them to do (or not to do) with the money they collect from users.

    Joe.
    "Men hang out signs indicative of their respective trades: shoe makers hang out a gigantic shoe; a jewler a monster watch; and the dentist
    hangs out a gold tooth; but in the Franconia Mountains of New Hampshire god almighty has hung out a sign to say in New England he makes men".
    Daniel Webster 18??

  11. #26
    Senior Member RoySwkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshire View Post
    Salty did not realiz it was a pay area (there are no prominent signs stating so and it had been about 20 years since he had been in this lot....well actually this lots previous incarnation.) Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee)
    That's a new one on me (and not a good thing), anybody else ever get an actual ticket in the White Mtns?

    If I was Salty, I would complain to the Forest Service about the lack of visibility of signs (did you start before dawn?) and the excessive multiple of the fee for a casual mistake. If that didn't work, I'd maybe even take it to Federal court in Concord - emphasizing that the WMNF does not provide a list of fee locations which in this day and age should be on their website. There are some other notes here which describe success elsewhere with this method.

    Sen. Greeg once got the WMNF to cancel an unreasonable fine. Seems like hearing that you have to pay $75 for a parking ticket would discourage more visitors than $25,000 for a rescue as more people are used to getting parking tickets.

  12. #27
    Senior Member NewHampshire's Avatar
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    Hey Roy,

    We pulled into Lincoln Woods at 8am, so there was plenty of light. Mike said he kept an eye out for a pay station or sign telling him to pay (I actually assumed he had an annual pass and had he said something I would have been able to tell him that LW is a pay site). But to be fair we parked in the area of the bathrooms on the road side. So perhaps the signage is up on the ranger station???? Not sure since, like I mentioned, he (nor I though I was not actually looking that hard assuming he had a pass already) actually saw anything. I can only once again assume that the ranger station is where one gets a pass, but on that I don't even know if it was open at the time. Wayyyyy to vauge if you ask me.

    And I agree completely that a $75 ticket for a mere mistake over a matter of $3 is sending a very bad message. What happens to a couple that decides to take their little kids out to Franconia Falls (which I have seen for myself is a very common occurance), parks in this nice crowded lot with no indication that they need to pay a parking fee and then gets a $75 ticket? Well, it is probably one less family that won't be coming up to the Whites is my guess.

    Brian
    Adopter: Wildcat Ridge Trail from Rt.16 to Wildcat "D". If you have any issues please contact me!

  13. #28
    Senior Member Ed'n Lauky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshire View Post
    Hey Roy,

    We pulled into Lincoln Woods at 8am, so there was plenty of light. Mike said he kept an eye out for a pay station or sign telling him to pay (I actually assumed he had an annual pass and had he said something I would have been able to tell him that LW is a pay site). But to be fair we parked in the area of the bathrooms on the road side. So perhaps the signage is up on the ranger station???? Not sure since, like I mentioned, he (nor I though I was not actually looking that hard assuming he had a pass already) actually saw anything. I can only once again assume that the ranger station is where one gets a pass, but on that I don't even know if it was open at the time. Wayyyyy to vauge if you ask me. Brian
    I have a pass so I haven't had to pay there, but if I'm not mistaken the pay box is on your extreme left as you pull in, about the level of the first parking lot.
    I used to look at my dog and think 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what your were thinking', and he'd look at me like he was saying 'If you were a little smarter I wouldn't have to'. Fred Jungclaus

    Some of our greatest historical and artistic treasures we place with curators in museums; others we take for walks. Roger Caras

    100/100 NEHH with Duffy
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  14. #29
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    More than once I have let my pass expire (as it is now) and more than once I received an envelope under the wiper to remind me to pay Ė which then I would send in with a form and check for a pass. But I have also gone almost a year on an expired pass without any notices (in fee areas). This is apparently a new tactic.

    I have seen mentioned here before (canít remember by whom) that motorcycles are exempt. Does anyone have evidence of this? I know many motorcycles donít even have a windshield but what is the reason for the exemption (if it is a fact)?

    Also, as a refresher for those who may not have seen it or forgotten, a list was made of those areas NOT requiring a fee. Any new developments can be posted to that thread and I will update the list.
    I'm just outwalkin....

  15. #30
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    I would call the ranger station yourself, explain you did not see the tube, or that you didn't have exact change and would be happy to mail them the $3 owed if they dropped the fine. They may well just accept that, especially given past precedent of a friendly reminder.

    Of all the places you ought to not forget, Lincoln Woods is the one IMO, it is the only one which meets all six requirements for a fee charged.

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

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